Orchard Park debate: To shovel or not to shovel

   Most of us are used to winter's civic obligation, to shovel the walk in front  of our property.

   Shirk the obligation and you risk getting a ticket or, perhaps worse, the disapproval of your neighbors.

   Every shovelful is saving some amount of tax money that would otherwise be necessary for the local government to do the work. (In the Village of Orchard Park, the cost comes to $38 per mile of sidewalk, per snowstorm).

   The civic obligation is a new thing in the Town of Orchard Park, where sidewalks have relatively recently been installed along state highways. The Town Board passed an ordinance earlier this month putting sidewalk maintenance on the shoulders of property owners.

   That's the usual arrangement, but some residents say it just makes more sense, with a low-density population, to make sidewalk plowing a municipal chore. Otherwise, the properties with long frontages … or those that are empty while residents flee south for the winter -- will leave their sidewalks buried under mounds of snow, blocking the way and canceling out the work of others.

   So the question is whether to shovel, or not to shovel -- and pay the town to do it.

  -- Fred O. Williams

Comments

[safe driver]

http://www.orchardparkny.org/indexing/Minutes/2008/html/2008mJan2.html
Score down, Robert Wendt. I spoke up as did others who do not have sidewalks in front of thteir properties. I look forward to hearing you at the next town board meeting.

[robert wendt]

thanks Ray - for confirming my suspision that many are just jealous of an Orchard Park address. Not everyone in OP is rich as you may think.

What many people dont realize is that all the while that the Town of Orchard Park grandstands a love of greenspace - they do nothing for the owners of vacant land.....to encourage them to keep it vacant.....we pay the same taxes as a lot with a home(based on value) - where real live people have homes and use services......the woodchucks and field mice on our vacant lot dont use the schools....nor do they need a library/water/sewer/streetlights or road maintenance.... nor do they need this sidewalk .....we pay all these taxes and fees - now they want us to plow and maintain the near road width sidewalks - that are used primarily for Wilson Stadium....the Town Board members appear to just not care that what they made law is unreasonable - they are not unaware of the feelings of the people affected since many people attended and spoke at a january 2008 public hearing. Why they feel that the cost of plowing shouldnt be spread across ALL the residents of OP is unknown to me......these are not normal sized sidewalks in developments that are small enough to be handled by a responsible homeowner.....I am not aware that any one of them applied for grants or asked the county to plow sidewalks around the County owned Stadium......the County gives Multi-millionaire Ralph Wilson whatever he wants....(please dont leave.....boo- hoo)....Im fairly sure the county clears the stadium parking lots and roadways.....how about SOME level of govt doing the right thing and plowing these near driving lane width PUBLIC sidewalks.....????...so that after the game the only guy in orchard park without a car can go to Tops with a bag of empties that he picked up and walk back with a fresh 12 pack.....'nuff said?

[Ray]

All the richy riches in OP can certainly afford to hire someone to do it for them. You chose to live in an affluent area, deal with it.

[Chancellor Carlyle Roberts, II]

There was a time when kids would be running all over the place wanting to shovel people's sidewalks. Whatever happened to good, old-fashioned capitalism?

[Lydia Bezou-Hojnacki]

Boomhauer, your comments should be directed to Fred O. Williams whose story I read and reacted to a couple of days ago.

Thank you Robert Wendt for furnishing us a better understanding of what exactly the situation is. On that basis, I can understand the outrage from the OP homeowners.

[boomhauer]

So property owners are no longer just guilty of "sheer laziness?" We don't need any "brisk exercise" anymore? Well thank you for your approval. Next time, please take the time to research issues before commenting on them and passing judgment, especially those issues that don't affect you personally. That way, you won't have to pull a John Kerry like you did on this page.

[Lydia Bezou-Hojnacki]

Boomhauer, YOU missed the point. Case closed. The sidewalk is public property taken by eminent domain, duly paid for, and is NOW the responsibility of the TOWN maintenance (public works) department.

[boomhauer]

Lydia, I think you missed Robert's point. The sidewalk is public property, and therefore the responsibility of the government. By your logic, the neighbors living next to the Erie County Jail should be responsible for emptying its septic tank.

[Lydia Bezou-Hojnacki]

Thank you, Robert,"...maybe what isnt clear here is that THE STATE OWNES THE LAND THAT THE SIDEWALK IS ON - THEY TOOK IT BY EMINENT DOMAIN and paid us what THEY though it was worth. IT IS NO LONGER OURS - the sidewalk is PUBLIC property...."

Case closed. A non-issue.

[robert wendt]

maybe what isnt clear here is that THE STATE OWNES THE LAND THAT THE SIDEWALK IS ON - THEY TOOK IT BY EMINENT DOMAIN and paid us what THEY though it was worth. IT IS NO LONGER OURS - the sidewalk is PUBLIC property.......State law stipulates that the TOWN highway superintendent is responsible of clearing and maintenance - the Town didnt want the expense so they passed a law that requires the property owner adjacent the sidewalk the responsibility for clearing and maintenance.....are you kidding me????....whats the next step?....maybe all property owners can be made responsible for the street in front of their property - that way the paving and patch crew as well as the snowplow can stay in the barn and the guys who would normally do that job can go on welfare....

I really cant believe the un-empathetic attitudes displayed here - WHY ARE PROPERY OWNERS BEING FORCED TO CLEAR / MAINTAIN PUBLIC SPACE ????----any reasonable person would admit placing the burden of maintenance of a several hundred foot - (8 foot wide) driveway sized sidewalk - in the middle of no where .....where other than Bills games (where BILLS crews should clear the snow) ....there is virtually no one on these sidewalks in the winter.....clearing snow of this magnitude requires equipment and manpower not available to the property owner - so he is forced to ask a contractor to do it for pay ....the several contractors I asked are not interested because of liabilities and demands of keeping up with it being filled and re- filled by State DOT plows....and why would some think it fair that the property owner ADJACENT to public land would be responsible in the first place?......how about those that live adjacent to Chestnut Ridge Park....how about we pass a law making them responsible for clearing the park in the winter - so the sledders and winter sports people can have fun.....just as crazy an idea as what Orchard Park Town Board did by passing Law #6 of 2008.

Somehow I get the idea that some people think property owners should be punished for owning their property - maybe jealousy is the motivation for those that write in support of property owners being held to task for what is clearly public work

[boomhauer]

Actually Art, a conservative would say "Why is the government infringing on my rights as a private property owner by building a sidewalk on my front lawn?"

[ArtKlein]

it is really hilarious to witness the failure of conservative folk to comprehend what actually is conservatism.

Orchard Park always was supposed to be a rather conservative community. That means they visioned themselves as the rigorous types who did not require government involvement except in defense of the nation.

But li as soon as this refusal to ask for government support means to get out and do some work they become liberals. But mind you only as long as it does not cost any tax dollars.

if they can't shovel the sidewalks jsut charge them per foot of sidewalk that has to be shoveled. In that manner they are not forcing theirfellow tax payers to support their lifestyle.

[McBea]

Robert Wendt, Don't you see the trend in Lydia's postings? She wants all of us to move into the glorious city and send our kids to those top notch public schools they have. She wants us to walk everywhere and forsake any pleasantry beyond the boundaries of what she considers civilization. She knows where we should live (the city!), what we should buy for our kids (nothing!...hand me down clothes and NO electronics), what foods we should eat (vegetarian), and how to prepare it (from scratch). While some of her ideas are well thought out, intelligent, and always well written, you will notice her not so very hidden agenda in every single posting. If you follow them long enough you will learn to cherish and, dare I say, look forward to each and every little gem.

[McBea]

I'm curious as to how they're going to do the ticketing...

Will I have a certain amount of time to shovel after the last flake falls?

What if it snows overnight and I don't have time to do it before I leave for work in the morning?

What if the sidewalk is 8 feet wide (as Robert Wendt says) and I only shovel it 6 feet wide?

What if I go out there and just throw some rock salt and sand around?

Which public safety officer is going to waste his time writing these tickets?

For the sanity of all concernted...make it the job of the town and be done with it.

[robert wendt]

Lydia Bezou-Hojnacki youre from the city ---- with a whole 40 feet of sidewalk to shovel...why dont put down your doughnut and maybe read what we are facing here----the sidewalks here were built for Bills games and are EIGHT FEET WIDE and we have SEVERAL HUNDRED feet to clear - (dont worry Ralph Wilson - we wouldnt think of asking you to plow so your fans can make it to your games)....Lydia your 40 feet of standard sidewalk is a joke - no wonder you dont mind - you dont pay orchard parks high taxes either in the sh*tty city

[Lydia Bezou-Hojnacki]

Not all city dwellers live in apartments nor own snow blowers. We clear 70 feet of driveway and 40 feet of sidewalk. And yes, the city plows slush up our sidewalk and driveway entrance, so we have to do them twice on days of heaviest accumulation.

Live with it or buy a snow blower, plow, or whatever works best for you.

[enoughalready]

EGADS! Rich folk having to clear sidewalks? What is the world coming to? Then again, does anyone walk in OP?

[robert wendt]

this is a pure case of the town passing the buck - "because they can"....doesnt matter that a group of people took the time to point out the obvious to the town board at a public hearing - its an impossible job to move not only snow - but frozen salty slush put on the sidewalks by speeding 25 ton DOT plow trucks - plowing side by each at all times of the day and night

State law dictates that the town highway supt plow the sidewalks - to the ignorant people who wrote things like "sheer laziness" in this blog - Im pretty sure that you either live in an apartment or have a small residential lot on a side street - try and keep the hundreds of feet of 8 foot sidewalk frontage that we now have to clear on route 20....this is not fair - plain and simple

to the highway supt - can you come up with a more expensive machine to propose - knowing full well that the more expensive - the less likely you will be to have to plow ?...how about placing sign posts on the inside edge of the sidewalk and using existing plow wings to clear the snow?.....

it wouldnt have hurt to have had the town board address the issue of snow clearing with the state designers early on - but they didnt care because they knew what was in the cards for property owners......this is just another tax

[BobbyCat]

It's a non-issue as long as it doesn't give the homeowner a heart attack trying to fulfill his civic responsibility. And many seniors don't have the extra dough to hire-it-out.Nor can they pay extra taxes for the town to do it. (Yes, even in Orch Pk)

In theory, persons over a certain age should not have to shovel sidewalks (or pay school taxes, for that matter).

[Lydia Bezou-Hojnacki]

Sheer laziness! Buy a piece of property with wide frontage, take care of it according to the town ordinance. Simple. Shovel the sidewalk, and get some brisk exercise.

This is a non-issue.