Windmills in farm country and furrowed brows

I'm obviously not an acoustical engineer, and I had no measuring equipment with me on a recent windy day as Derek Gee, a Buffalo News photographer, and I took a look at the wind turbines in Wyoming County. But I can say this. You can certainly hear these giant tubes with their huge blades.

   From a distance, they look like a field of Mercedes Benz emblems, spinning in the wind. As we stood on Telegraph Road in the Town of Eagle, looking at a landscape of turbines erected by Noble Environmental, on a beautiful October day when the wind was blowing, at probably 15 to 20 miles an hour, one turbine in particular almost seemed to whistle. The rest of them raised a steady whoosh, whoosh, woosh.

   Maybe it was just one errant whistling turbine, and a field of them may be scenic, but what if New York fulfills its alternative energy goal, and there are thousands of these 400 foot towers in the upstate countryside? Would you live next to one?

   With New York's goal of having 25 percent of its electricity produced by alternative energy in just five years, it's a future that all of New York now faces, whether you live in the countryside, spend time there, or just enjoy driving through it.

  -- Michael Beebe

Comments

[W]

I live in the northeastern corner of Allegany county, in the town of Fillmore, and I will tell you people that care to read this a few things:

1. These turbines, at full load, generate less noise than a loud conversation. I took my father out to the base of one o them, because he was skeptical of the noise they make. We had a nice normal chat, right underneath the blades.

2. I did not see a single dead bird. Birds will avoid them, and those that don't probably aren't that bright anyhow. The big birds that people worry about won't fly into them, because they can see the blades. You don't see birds smashing into trees, do you? Stupid trees, always getting in the way.

3. Someone once mentioned "sun flicker" as a health risk of the wind turbines. How far a reach is this? Well, try driving down a wooded road. Oh my goodness the sun flicker is terrible. Epileptics driving there might have seizures...we better cut down all the trees, they are a health risk.

The view? I think I would prefer 100 wind turbines to a single nuclear power plant, thanks. The truth is, we need the energy to come from diverse sources, and I for one do not want a nuclear plant or a fossil fuel burning plant anywhere near my back yard. I would, however, take a handful of wind turbines because in truth, they are elegant and a sign of finally advancing beyond the slavery to fossil fuels in this country.

To the people who think this has somehow harmed their property values in Bliss: Are you nuts? Having billions of dollars of wind energy producing equipment and no property taxes for probably 20 years does NOT lower your values. Get real. Maybe you should go make your $400,000 home on an island where there is no electricity. Then you would have your idealistic little world to look at. Good luck with that.

[KM]

I would like to say, as a resident of Sheldon, that a couple points of the argument with the wind turbines were overlooked. There is only a handful of people who are against the turbines, and none of them are getting windmills on their property, so they really have no place complaining about them in the first place. Furthernore, those people are mainly the ones who moved into Sheldon in recent years from the suburbs or the city. They are people who are just looking for their picturesque little country home, like it's some kind of fairy tale. We are not a fairy tale, we are hardworking individuals trying to make a living.

You know, a little while ago there were people complaining about farmers spreading manure on their fields? The town had to pass a law--now there's signs when you come into the town saying "RIGHT TO FARM COMMUNITY." Anyone who's lived here and intends to stay living here would say that's a given. Guess who the people were who were complaining then? They're the same people worrying about their property values now and just looking for that fairytale country life. Sorry, it doesn't exist as they picture it.

[Karen]

Good arguements.
As for the people who think the turbines are ugly, well, we all got used to miles of wire along our streets and houses. We got used to those miles of ATT lines, the ones that cut through farmland, wetlands, the side of my parents' place, with their who knows how many stories 4 legged steel towers.
As for birds flying into them...maybe we should all live in windowless houses. I have those practically invisible to human eyes, but visible to birds cutouts on my windows, and they still bang into the glass. Birds will fly into things. Accidents happen.
I say, its worth the sight of the turbines, to get reduced taxes, and energy enoough to sell, energy that doesn't require coal or nuclear energy to power up. And, a power plant is also not the most lovely architecture to look at in one's community.

[BrutalHonesty]

Nice article, I'm very happy for the residents of the Towns who have windmills. However, being a pessimist, how long until downstate gets involed with the companies and the power is sent to NYC? Is the Hydro-electricity produced at Niagara Falls part of the 25% goal? I'm guessing it is, yet Niagara County has the highest property taxes in the nation. I'm pretty sure property values in Niagara Falls are not growing. Yet when windmills were proposed there, critics were worried about the windmills destroying the view, wouldn't want to draw attention away from the rusty, shuttered chemical plants. It is too soon to see how this all plays out, but at least something new is being tried, Good luck to those willing to give something a chance.

[Camino Reality]

I recall a time in WNY when smoke from factories and power plants blotted out the sky.

Every wind turbine and solar panal installed in WNY is a step towards independence from middle eastern oil.

After the middle of America the Great Lakes is number two in wind power.

We will be proud when the day comes to make all homes and structures more energy efficient. The more energy we save the less we need to produce. That is the key.

We welcome new technologies other than oil to propel our cars.

We await the New York State Thruway Authority placing solar panals from Buffalo to NYC. The Autoban in Germany has been solar panaled. Why raise tolls when there is solar energy to be harvested on the NY Thruway? Germany isn't Arizona.

[Neil]

An interesting point the article doesn't mention is how much power all these turbines are producing in terms of kwh not just their capacity potential in mega-watts, it's a crucial distinction. Another way to produce this electricity without having to also have the appropriate base-load back up generating sources (coal and so on) would be to build relatively inconspicuous, clean, safe, reliable, and available Nuclear Power capacity. It's a no-brainer, cleans up the environment (no ghg's) and relieves our dependence on foreign energy sources and is reliable in an on-demand, base-load capacity unlike the hundreds, if not thousands of wind-turbines it would take to produce the same amount of power as a single nuke plant. California's got miles and miles of wind turbines and still has to buy electric power from other states as it shuts down nuclear plants, hence rolling blackouts and brown-outs during peak demand periods. I do like the idea of solar panels down the length of the Thruway, why not use the space productively, however NYS is a sunshine challenged area is it not?

[W]

And how do you propose we handle all the radioactive waste products generated by nuclear facilities? I am sorry, but some things should not be done. That happens to be one.

[BobbyCat]

First we must overcome the notion that any inconvenience, any sacrifice perpetrated on our quietude is intolerable and alas - simply too much to bear.

My advice is to shut up, suck it up and get over it. If we need to erect wind turbines horizon to horizon, build them. Better having the taxpayers own them, BTW. We don't need any middlemen.

[Neil]

W....Yucca Mountain in Nevada is already built and ready to go as a national nuke storage site, but not being used for political reasons. It's in the middle of the desert where they once set off nuclear tests, nobody will be using said area for many years. In addition, new technology reactors - waste decays in hundreds of years instead of tens of thousands. Are you more comfortable with them storing the waste on-site as they do now?

[Neil]

Bobby....socialism doesn't work, hasn't worked, and won't work, sorry.

[Joe Fadale]

I've read an awful lot of negetive comments about wind mills and it is very puzzling to me. The claims about birds flying into them is just ridiculous. Birds fly into windows because they are clear and don't see them but you will rarely see one fly into a building or tree or anything else visible and solid unless they are blown into it or very ill. Nobody seems to object to the massive pollution that fossil fuels create as loudly as they are about windmills. These people should be ashamed! We should be doing everything we can to eliminate our dependance on and reverse the effects of fossil fuels for ourselves, our children and our world.

[PBD]

It is all about MONEY--and don't forget it. Money to the CORPORATION and its investors, money to the farmer, money to the town, money to the county and its agency!!!! The hogwash about NOT killing birds (for the uneducated, it is the raptors who will get killed by the blades of the turbines, not the wee little birds!!! And how much FORIGN OIL is used for electric energy??? Any answers out there? My source, the electric company, says 1%. On the other side, way back in the "olden days", taking advantage of the poor, the uneducated, the minorities (trust me, farmers are in the minority) was shameful and today is illegal thus the Attorney General's job). Do you think that if the CORPORATIONS gave both sides of the story to those who sign on for a turbine or two, would still do it/or do it for the measley $8,000. offered per turbine??? Again, it is about the money, and who wouldn't be very happy not to have to pay those dratted taxes--for now anyways!! The future economy will tell!!!

[Chad]

I, for one, welcome our new wind turbine overlords.

"Critics say...and bring a collection of ailments that a northern New York physician has labeled Wind Turbine Syndrome."

Huh? Are you kidding me? "Wind Turbine Syndrome", lets call it WTS or better yet WTF!!! Anyone notice that the wacko physicians name was left out of the article. Jacka**. Everything is a "syndrome" or a "condition" these days. Grow a backbone people.

I would rather look out my back window and see dozens of 400' turbines than see a coal or nuclear plant. I personally like the way they look. They're a testament to how far we've come in such a short time. What are the byproducts of a coal plant? Noxious, poisonous gas released into the air. How about a nuclear plant? A little better, steam. Oh wait, RADIOACTIVE waste. How about wind? Heat. That's it.
Look around you. The best way to create energy is to harness the earth's natural elements, wind and water.

For all you NIMBY's, move. Build a home in some isolated place and generate all your own power and energy. Lets see how far you get. We don't want you around in the first place.

[Neil]

BTW, wind is currently more expensive to produce per kwh than either coal, natural gas, or nuclear and ISN'T a reliable source of on demand, base-load generation. We should avail ourselves of it to the extent it's economically feasible, however you still need the same amount of conventional generation sources. Otherwise your lights, furnace, AC, TV, and internet are going to quit working when the wind stops blowing. Wind power is only available about a quarter to a third of the time.

[Geordie]

Many of the comments here betray a profound ignorance of electricity generation and how wind power generation (WPG) works (or doesn't).

Would recommend investigating how 'big wind' has worked out in countries such as Germany, Denmark and Spain.

The real world experience shows that WPG does not substitute for more than a tiny percentage of conventional capacity. Indeed, very large wind investment ends up with the building of more conventional capacity to cover the 70-90% backup it requires.

It is no coincidence that grid companies such as CALISO (California) are very critical. They have to try and cope with occasional large amounts of WPG that is produced when it is least needed and almost none when it is most needed - see the 2006 California 'energy crunch':
http://www.windaction.org/news/4732

[I Love New York]

Doesn’t upstate New York value its tourism industry??? You can kiss that goodbye if these ugly monstrosities become even more ubiquitous than they are now.

Anyone who has been around these turbines knows how imposing and unsightly they are. This industry is profoundly altering the natural landscape -- the landscape has many benefits, psychically and physically. Are landscape-loss costs calculated in when assessing the net benefits of this technology?

Energy sustainability will require lifestyle changes, no matter what our production methods and expectations. One observation: air-conditioning is not necessary at this latitude. How many buildings in upstate NY were air-conditioned as recently as the 70s? Not the majority. Most A.C. use is wasteful and simply indulgent in this part of the country. And even in warmer climates it is delusional to think we can indefinitely continue to cool the summer away. Air-conditioning uses more electricity than any other human activity. And when architects build with air conditioning in mind, they create buildings that do not take advantage of cooling breezes. The real wind power we should switch to is the open window.

[Clare]

I do wonder why no one complains about all the cell phone towers that have been put everywhere you look. I also wonder if when electric lines were first strung on every street if everyone was against that too.

[MK]

While we have all heard that "the love of money is the root of all evil", the industrial wind issue is a case study of this, as communities and neighbors across WNY have been torn apart, all for the love of money. Self-interest has become the name of game - your neighbors be damned.

I wonder if the simple-minded who make uneducated, attacking statements like "shut up, suck it up and get over it," would want industrial wind turbines slammed only 800' from their homes? Perhaps those making such statements should spend a bit more time educating themselves before spewing such nonsense.

Watch as a wind turbine explodes, which the Discovery Channel documented as hurling debris for at least a 1/2 mile, and then tell us you would want these industrial installations placed only 800' from your house:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u14tBwO5QVQ

Here's a recent ABC news clip in which Charlie Gibson reported the truth about the intense sound associated with these immense machines. You should also note that this "little" wind farm is comprised of only four (4) turbines, far removed from people's homes (a far cry from what's going on in WNY):
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=5978741

Here's a news clip on the effects turbine noise has had on those living too close:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm0Oe8J6qT8&sdig=1

I don't expect the simple-minded folks who have their minds made up (often times because they stand to gain), to read any further. However, for those interested in facts on the truth of this corporate welfare scam, I'm sure you'll find the following information very enlightening.

According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA), our government's source for energy statistics, in 2007, total nation-wide electric generation from oil was only 1.2%, and most of that usage came from a tarry residual oil, or coal-like petroleum coke - both otherwise almost useless byproducts of refining.

According to the EIA's 2007 Annual Energy Outlook Report, wind provided 4/10 of 1% total nation-wide generation in 2005, and due to "considerable uncertainties", "might provide 9/10 of 1% total nationwide generation by 2030". We could devastate every inch of our beautiful New York countrysides with industrial wind turbines, and it's not going to do a thing to alleviate foreign oil dependence.

Despite all of corporate wind's propaganda claims, the basic facts regarding industrial wind remain the same - wind can't dent a grape in the scheme of things. Plain and simple:

1.) While it's true that all energy sources receive subsidies, wind is outrageously over-subsidized, and can never be economically-viable on its own. According to the EIA, on a dollar per MWh basis, wind receives $23.34 per MWh - compared to coal at $0.44; natural gas at $0.25; hydro at $0.67; and nuclear at $1.59. Together, coal, natural gas, hydro, and nuclear produce 95% of our nation's electricity supply, and for each of these mainline conventional generators, we as ratepayers get extremely high reliability and performance - each with an effective capacity exceeding 99.99%.

2.) The subsidies for wind go for a power source that can not replace any conventional generation sources because wind provides virtually NO Capacity Value (can be relied on to be there when called upon) - which wind reps would have us believe is no big deal. Wind also requires constant "shadow capacity" - that is, conventional power sources to back up the inimical power offered by wind, highlighting the fact that wind can not replace our reliable, dispatchable power sources.

3.) Our taxes in the form of federal subsidies cover wind developments to the tune of 65%, while state incentives cover an additional 10%. No wonder wind garners the attention of the greedy! (Massachusetts Secretary of Energy, Ian Bowles, recently said, "Renewable plants have an enormous subsidy under the Renewable (energy) Portfolio Standards law. If they still can't compete, they probably shouldn't be built.")

4.) All conventional generation sources are controllable and dispatchable - wind is neither.

5.) The very reason for the existence of the industrial wind industry is their claims of CO2 savings. With some 60,000 industrial wind turbines encumbering the world today, NO coal plants have been shut down, many new ones continue to be built (one every four days in China), and NO proof of CO2 savings has been shown anywhere in the world.

6.) The thermal implications of trying to balance destabilizing "wind flutter" on the grid are enormous. Wind's volatility forces conventional generators to have to work harder, thus, more inefficiently - increasing their CO2 emissions, in order to balance things out.

7.) The Production Tax Credit extension for wind for just one year (2009) will cost American taxpayers $7 BILLION dollars - on top of the current $700 BILLION dollar bailout!

And what do we get, besides the above list, for continuing to foot the bill for this poster child of corporate welfare at American taxpayers' expense?

- a resource typically built hundreds of miles away from load centers where the electricity is needed, which will require at least another TRILLION dollars of taxpayer money to build the additional transmission lines that will be needed through undeveloped, rich habitat;

- The requirement that up to 90% of the electricity from wind be matched with redundant generation to ensure reliability when the winds die down - ensuring taxpayers will have to pay twice as additional generation is needed.

As Robert Bryce states in his recent book, Gusher of Lies, Limited Liability wind companies are "the electricity sector's equivalent of ethanol," which he documents as one of the worst energy "scams". He continues, "The hype [for wind] has lost all connection with reality."

[Cliff Rohde]

There is no doubt that wind turbines are visually obvious or that they make sound. I don't think that the site of them necessarily scares all tourists away, however. Some locales have witnessed people come just to see the turbines. I believe the Fenner and Maple Ridge sites have seen tourism bumps. Of course, if there are hundreds of turbines throughout the state, their status as a curio would diminish.

If a town decides that turbines are acceptable, the challenge is in siting them appropriately so that their imposition on the environment (visual, audial, topographical, etc.) is reduced. Many people I've come across believe the state, which as Mr. Beebe notes, ENCOURAGES the use of renewables, should provide additional guidance in the siting of renewable energy generation facilities. Though as a home rule state, New York does not find consensus on this point.

[Jeff Tutuska]

My name is Jeff Tutuska and I am a property owner in Centerville. I would like to respond to the comments of one of my neighbors, “W”, who is obviously either profiting from turbines, not impacted by them, or unaware of the facts.
1. These turbines create up to 45 decibels of noise. While usually audible during daylight hours, they become irritable load in the evening when the ambient noise level drops. The sound they create is similar to a pulsing jet engine. They are, after all turbines. Even if the noise they create was similar to a load conversation, who could get a healthy night of sleep with people having a loud conversation over their heads?
2. Does the fact that you didn’t happen to see any dead birds mean that they don’t kill any? Are you a biologist? The fact is that bright white things attract bugs, bugs attract birds and bats, and raptors feed on the carnage. Noble’s Environmental Impact Study is flawed. The bird and bat mortality in Tugg Hill was found to be 4 times greater than what Noble estimated. The mortality rate here is expected to be even greater due to the diversity of the area. I’m sure you could care less about this, but think about what the proposed tens of thousands of turbines will do over the course of 20 years of operation. This has to be considered in placement of turbines.
3. Shadow flicker creates a strobe effect inside homes. It is a fact. There is a simple way to avoid this issue…don’t put turbines so damned close to people’s homes.
4. About your view. 100 turbines aren’t a drop in the bucket. It would take 10,000 turbines to replace one traditional power plant, and that wouldn’t even work because they only make power when the wind blows. With the wind speeds in this area, these turbines will only average about 15% of their potential capacity, despite what Noble has been feeding you. Noble is building turbines for tax credits, which are far more valuable to them then the measly amount of electricity they produce.
5. In regards to property value, of course they will be diminished. Noble’s flawed studies only compare changes in value of properties 5 miles from a turbine project. Properties within 1 mile of turbines will be depreciated depending on the severity of the impact. Many of Centerville’s residents purchased their properties for peaceful enjoyment, something that will not be possible with turbines spinning over our heads.
I am not saying that Centerville should not have turbines. The farmers of Centerville have a utilitarian view of their property and I respect their hard work and dedication. I am saying that turbines are planned to be built too close to people’s homes. There is no denying that the animosity brought on by this project could have been solved by negotiating reasonable setbacks. It is obvious that we need alternative forms of energy, but it needs to be properly planned. If these turbines are to be built, they should be sited in a way that does not disrupt people’s lives. I’ll be damned if I am going to let a greedy corporation and an incompetent town board force a turbine so close to me. It’s not going to happen without a fight. Before forming your own opinion, talk to some Eagle residents who have been affected by the noise and shadow flicker of operating turbines. Ask them about sleepless nights and headaches from the strobe effect of shadow flicker. Ask them about Noble’s response to their valid complaints. Ask them if they would have tried harder to get respectful setbacks. But don’t ask anyone who signed an easement, because they had to sign a “hush clause” to get payment. We are all entitled to our own opinion, but it is difficult to respect yours when you are afraid to mention your name.
RESPECT YOUR NEIGHBORS. DEMAND FURTHER SETBACKS.

[Glenn Cramer]

I am a Councilman on the Town Board of Sheldon. A few moments ago one of the residents that had criticized the Sheldon Wind farm in Mr. Beebe’s Sunday article phoned me. They reported that the farmer owning the Turbines that have been placed next to their new house is spreading manure in a field that is just 60 feet from their residence. Fields need to be fertilized. Is this just a coincidence? Maybe it is.

When the Turbines were first introduced I hosted an informational public meeting on the subject. After the meeting the Town Zoning officer threatened me with drummed up personal zoning violations. A local farmer who is getting turbines shook his fist in my face and told me that I was a liar.

During the last Local elections my business was tomatoed. In my penny saver box I would find animal parts and feces. Also, my campaign signs were defaced or stolen as fast as they were put up.

One resident who is legally blind tells of Wind Representatives asking him to sign a contract that was not in is best interest. He waited for his wife read it to him.

Eventually the wind industry prevailed and the Sheldon Project went under way.

There is an irony in the end of this saga in establishing Sheldon’s Industrial Wind Turbines. I assume that Developer decided it to be in good taste to complement their Industrial Turbines with 2,000 loads of Industrial Waste from the old Bethlehem Steel Plant. This was worked into the thousands of other loads of crushed stone hauled in. The sad part is that the other Board members say they didn’t know and really don’t care.

In defense of the Project, the Supervisor says that this same fill has been used in other wind projects. Maybe that justifies it, but the Department of Agriculture and Markets have great concerns.

This is what the Turbines have done for Sheldon

Glenn Cramer
Councilman

[My view]

You can call them what you want but a good friend of mine once had a beautiful view of the hills that could be used on a post card. He recently had his home appraised by 3 Realtors who said his value has been reduced greatly. All three asked the same question Who wants to look at that every day ? I guess if I were looking for a country home I'd want one with nice views I probably wouldn't buy one looking at these giants unless they gave it away, even then I'd have to think long and hard.

[Dave]

Every wind turbine and solar panal installed in WNY is a step towards independence from middle eastern oil.

LOL Can anybody tell me where they burn oil to produce electric in Western New York and when will they close them down because the wind turbines will take over?

[Dave]

Oh by the way.

They manufactures of the turbines want a 1300 foot space between the turbine and the public. The town board members want them alot closer so they can fit more on there land. This is a public safety issue when they are 700 feet from the road.

Don't send the kids to school on windy days. They do break and send parts airborne.

[Jaybird]

LOL, of course there aren't any oil burners in WNY. The USA actually exports more oil than than we use to generate power, but some of these folks just believe anything the wind power salesmen tell them. Another good one is the line about wind turbines reducing mountain top mining methods in appalachia. We are exporting record amounts of Appalachian coal, Do you folks really think the Chinese and the Indians will burn this coal more responsibly than we would???
I would have more respect for these pro-wind people posting here if they would just say that it's all about the money. The pro wind comments here just show that these people didn't do their homework. Oh and P.S Coal fired and nuclear power plants are base load power plants, you CAN'T displace base load power with wind turbines, in fact if the trickle of very expensive,yet low value power from wind is actually needed we will have to build more conventional power plants, pretty stupid to build both.