Some fire companies sit on piles of cash

   The men and women who put themselves in danger to fight fires, who climb into burning buildings to rescue the inhabitants, are heroes who deserve deep gratitude.

   That having been said, it doesn't mean that volunteer fire companies shouldn't face scrutiny of their budgets and spending.

   In Erie County, many volunteer fire companies build up substantial reserves with taxpayer money. Essentially, they bill taxpayers in advance for the replacement of vehicles and buildings, years down the road.

   That's cheaper than having to borrow the money, advocates say. But it rubs some people the wrong way. While town governments publicly discuss big expenditures before they happen, fire companies can make their decisions without public input.

   Should taxpayers have a better window on fire companies' spending?

  -- Fred O. Williams

Comments

[BrutalHonesty]

Taxpayers do have a say in the funding of fire companies. The agreements are worked out between the local elcted government and the fire departments. Citizens elect the government. While the suburban fire companies may look like country clubs, they do provide a life saving service at a cost less than that would be required for a full time fire fighting force. This article seems to be trolling for dissent in this new age of wealth redistibution. Ask yourself two questions. 1. If the cities of WNY had to provide a volunteer Fire Department with the same amount of money per capita or building space as the suburbs recieve would this volunteer company be effectively manned? Would you want them to respond to your house if it was burning in the middle of the night?

[enoughalready]

Boys with toys. Unfortunately these toys cost tens of thousands of taxpayer dollars. Of course they provide a vital service, but where is the oversight? They have better equipment than full-time fire departments that handle 100 times the calls. Does the town of Hamburg need four ladder trucks for five buildings over three-stories?

[TomDavis1]

Here we go again...
IAFF thugs and Jimmy Hoffa wannabes attacking the volunteers. Let's kill 'em all they say. The news obviously didn't mention the small community vollie fire department (small meaning about 1000+ population) that STILL use equipment dating back to the 70's. Oh believe me, water still puts out fire, but companies stop making parts for their engines and pumps. Maybe we can put a machine shop in the vollie halls and have them make their own replacement parts.

You know, it makes it even more convincing to just get out of the vollie service all together (after 19 years) and just say the heck with it. Be more careful with matches next time I'll tell someone when their house burns down.

You want to control your taxes? Bring more jobs, bring more businesses to WNY, and not scare them away. More jobs mean more tax revenue. A simple solution.

[WNYXpat13]

Let me get this right, in a time when municipalities are experiencing ballooning budget deficits and will have to cut back on both services and personnel, some people have decided to pillory a system that provides superior service at a fraction the cost of a full time fire service just because they are fiscally responsible and like to pay cash to maintain an up-to-date infrastructure? If our local, state and federal governments acted as responsibly we might have roads that were regularly repaired and bridges that didn’t fall down when you drove over them. Rather than worrying about the fact that volunteer fire companies are buying land and updating equipment, these folks should be worried about the fact that there are fewer and fewer volunteers. The day may come when they have to pay full price for fire service because there are no volunteers – wait until they get their tax bill then! Count yourselves lucky, there are many places in the country that wish they had the quality of service you do.

[Cynical Consumer]

To answer the journalist's questions directly: the tax payers do have the right and opportunity to direct this practice: tax payers are free to participate as volunteers. Bottom line: most don't. Those who don't are quick to condemn those who do. Participation is a key part of American democracy and civil society, as written by de Tocqueville (sorry for the possible misspelling) but continues to decline (so says Robert Putnam in "Bowling Alone" study of social capital). My uncle lost his life in a fire...as a volunteer firefighter in our community. As municipal budgets continue to shrink and government entertains their perceptions of downsizing, committed volunteers will endeavor to keep our community alive. Literally. Don't let the naysayers stand in the way, particulaly when the volunteers are employing best practices and ethical means of meeting their goals.

[lanres]

Tax-payers save money by having volunteers.--
Count the number of volunteers in each fire company. Multiply that by about $60,000.00 each- thats your savings, yearly !-(-low -low estimate of cost of service provided,healthcare and dont forget pensions.) -Tax-payers are saving money. --

[thisiscrazy]

I find it amusing that we continue to distruct the efforts of the volunteer fire service again and again. It blows my mind that people have no idea why we need 5 ladder trucks when we have very few tall buildings. Please learn the facts before you comment. You dont understand at all. Ladder trucks are an extreme safety device used on places as small as residential structures. they provide more support and less risk of injury than a free standing ladder. Additionally, if you volunteered like the rest of us, you would know that ventilation is a key part of firefighting and without a ladder truck, ventilation is an extreme hazard. So, if only one ladder was in service in the entire town, if we have a fire alarm activation at a business, and it's a duct detector on an hvac unit and the ladder is needed to gain access to the roof, now we have to take 10+ other volunteer firefighters from a different fire company away from their families to use their ladder truck. Thats ridiculous. Additionally, It would be an excellent thing to see you "enoughalready" wake up at 330am in -degree winter weather to check out a fire alarm going off in an area mall, or help a neigbor down the road who is having trouble breathing, or to spend the entire october 2006 storm away from your family instead helping people in your town who have nobody to reach out to? If you dont do it, why should I? Please give us the respect we need. It's rather difficult to maintain a small budget when operational costs are so large. We are not using equipment that is better than the city fire departments, if anything its the exact same with less use. If you think it's a joke try finding a firefighting supplies magazine and check out some of the costs of our equipment. Did you know on average a pumper costs over 300,000 dollars? If you think we have to many trucks, wait until your house is on fire, and we cant get water to the scene quick enough because the neighboring fire companies engine is coming from 5+ miles away, or 10-15minutes away. Someday you will regret your negative comments about the volunteer fire service. Perhaps it will be when your crushed under your dashboard of your car at midnight on christmas eve because of someone who wasnt paying attention. Why should I leave my family on Christmas eve, because you dont seem to think its important. Try volunteering in the fire service, then we'll talk cause you dont seem to understand at all.

[robert wendt]

There needs to be something done to reduce costs - like the article says these fire districts were set up in the "horse and buggy days" .....when firefighters needed to be summoned by a bell or siren & transport was slow. Look at the picture of the Harris Hill Fire Dept in the article - that has become the norm....I Live in the Newton- Abbott district and they have a similar bldg. ....nowhere would you see a private business build such an extravagent building to house fire fighting - or any other equipt....nothing more than a steel military style building is actually necessary to keep the equipt out of the weather and give the men a place to WORK out of.....social events really are NOT what a fire dept should be about.....an award dinner or other special event could be held in a public venue - like a school.
truth of the matter is that these fire companies have taxpayers over the barrel - they levy taxes....much like the schools (who are also out of control) and build themselves fancy social clubs as part of the firehall. If one were to audit the cost of building the newer firehalls Ill bet the greater portion of building expense was for the social event portion of the hall. The vehicles that firefighters need should be military type - no frills - no chrome basic built for utility types. The military uses and rebuilds their vehicles many times before scrapping them - fire companies keep vehicles for quite a time as well - but almost always the fancy gold leafed / chrome laden / much more expensive than needed vehicles are surplused and replaced - rather than upgraded /restored at a lesser cost. Volunteer firemen are rightly given tax abatements on their home property tax bills - as compensation for their service....but to have a lavish social club - on a scale as good or better than generally avail in the area by the public is not right. The Halls already built shoud be avail to the citizens of the community for THEIR events - such as wedding - at cost...since they the community have paid for the hall in the first place....and a moratorium and public review should be put in place on building any new palaces. ....If the volunteers have come to feel they need to be compensated ( I believe they have) maybe its time to have a govt policy change and have national guard/military /police /Homeland security /etc. members of the community fill this necessary function.

[lanres]

Lets take a sentance from the above article and change a few words --- In Erie County, many-(if not all) Local Governments build up substantial reserves with taxpayer money. ----

Essentially, they bill taxpayers in advance for the replacement of vehicles and buildings, years down the road.----

Its your local, State and Federal tax rates and how they spend your money, you should look at. - - - Volunteers save money, you "Elect Politicians" to find ways to spend tax-dollars. Get your prioroties straight.

[AVolunteersWife]

You know instead of dwelling on how much these companies save to make it safe for not only their UNPAID Fireman but the best for their communities. You should be looking at the results. During times like this when the paid Fireman are asking for more & more money these Volunteers are saving, so when the time come to need the new equipment or buildings they are not scrambling to come up with the money. Now on the down side of this deal I feel that these companies who are just sitting on this money should think about reaching out to other Volunteer Companies who are not as lucky to be located in an area that can raise that much. Where my husband is a Volunteer Fireman you (The Buffalo News) just did an article about how we are still running out of a building that was built in 1929 & using trucks that are about 20 years old. I don't see anyone reaching to our aid over the fact that we have been trying to get a new hall built sense 2004. Granted in our case it's more of a waiting game than any thing but we still are faced to have to sit down every month & ask whats more important. What do we need more of. Unlike these other companies who can spend their money on any number of things & all at once our hall as well as others in the same situation have to pick & choose. As a Volunteer Fireman's wife I sit there & watch my husband respond to calls just as any Volunteer does. In the grand sceme of things you can't place an amount on your life being saved or knowing that nomatter what you can sleep safe at night know that there will never be a strike or no matter the time of day or night these Volunteers will be there. Their only pay is the fact that they know they keep there community out of harms way. So please America stop looking at these companies & raising your eyebrows at the way they save money. Just be glad when they pull up to help you & say Thanks to not only them for being there with the best but to yourself for supporting them. To the companies who do have all this money as claimed maybe you should sit down & see what you can do to help other Fire Companies not in your fiancial state.

[Ken]

Some people never cease to amaze me. Everyone has the answers or so they seem. All of this rhetoric about this and that and what the fire companies are doing(or not doing) and I have yet to see anyone come up with a fiscally sound solution to the "problem" Sure it's our nature to defend our consious and get our issues off our chests, but when it comes down to being a part of the solution everyone backs down. I have a question for Mr Beckwith, You say you live in the Big Tree VFC district? How many years of volunteer service do you have in the Big Tree VFC? None. Have you ever submitted any financial plans indicating a solution that everyone would be comfortable with supporting? No. I have read many of your blahh blahh blogs and I have yet to read any such ficsal plans? Is it because you dont know yourself what is the best plan for the fire service? or is because you simply have no clue about the big picture here? Preaching to the chior is not going to solve any problems. As a volunteer firefighter / Paramedic myself I have answered over 285 calls (as of yesterday) this year alone. If you figure each call takes roughly about 2 hours of "MY" time, times an average wage of $15.00 per hour, "I" saved you over $8,550.00. Now multipy that by a team of 6 men/women per crew thats $51,300.00 "WE" saved you. Now remember that does not include payroll taxes, insurance, disability, health care etc. Now you sit there in your nice cozy house and complain about what I'm not doing for you. Meanwhile I'll be out there with my fellow volunteers focusing on the big picture here. "saving lives".
"Thank you" to everyone else who realizes the fire service is a vital asset to their community! We appreciate your support!!!

[Tex]

I agree w/ AVOLUNTEERSWIFE..." To the companies who do have all this money as claimed maybe you should sit down & see what you can do to help other Fire Companies not in your fiancial state."

Lets look at the Southline Fire COmpany in South Cheektowaga... Did you really have to re-paint all your trucks black/red .. ?? Do u really need a the front end of your old fire truck behind your bar in your social room? i can understand the county as no money for fire training but has anyone seen their new training facility that is attached to their substation on boxwood ?? How about sharing some of that $$ w/ your neighboring companies that cant afford to buy new trucks/equipment like you guys do all the time. Could you imagine all of Cheektowaga having top of the line equipment like you do !! Share the Wealth

[The Relocated]

Seems kind of ridiculous to point the finger at the Vol companies for budget and spending issues. They provide a service to thier communities and the local tax base doesn't pay wages, routine health care and benefits.

The Vol Companies would appear to be the best judge at how the county money they recieve is being spent. If the county feels it need to cut back a few points then so be it but you don't penalize people because they've been judicious with thier resources. Even if one company appears to have some kind of financial advantage when the call for help is made they'll come.

[Cindy B.]

Everyone should leave all firefighters, volunteer or not, alone. Who else will save our kitties from the trees without five trucks with ladders.

THANK YOU!!

[Shed a little light]

This if for Mr Fred O. Williams and everyone else who finds themselves attached to Ford Beckwiths puppet strings. Now he's playing the Buffalo News like a fiddle. He tried the same game with the Hamburg Sun but his cover was blown. Check out the hammer the editor put down on him!
http://www.thesunnews.net/editorial.php3?idkey=1336

[itsmepc]

Is this really happening? The One sided Buffalo News is slamming the Southtowns, by running this story on the title page. Why ???? I moved far away from the area almost 25 years ago and upon a recent trip back it really took me by surprise to see how many new housing developments have sprung up in the Hamburg, Big Tree district in these years. 1, 2 no I counted at least 13, plus new businesses, of course I might have missed one or 2. Wow the Southtowns have grown!! A fantastic place to live. God forebid that anything happen, if the firecompany did not have uptodate fire equipment or resourses to buy new ones to protect the citizens in the area. As a native resident, who takes prides of where I came from, this is embarrising. Just consider what can $1 million really buy you today?? How many homes and properties are there in the area which are valued around this price? The cost of living has gone so high that this sum actually should be doubled!! All the more power for the volunteer fire companies who can wisely reinvest there minimal funding from the state, and at the end of the day be able to have surplus!! Why not ask how much money was unnecessarily spent during the recent elections, but this is a different subject.
What better time to stop spending, but to start saving and investing, and volenteer. This article is great, to bring to the attention of our citizen that there is a better way to spend your time instead of watching TV. Sign up at your local firestation, now is the time to get involed and make a difference!!!As in the past VOLUNTEERS NEEDED!!!!

[Board162478]

Mr. Wendt,
It is obvious to me that you honestly have no clue about the Fire Service in general, let alone the Volunteer Fire service. Before you spout off with comments that have no sustantial meaning, why don't you join a Company and see what it is about and how much time and commitment it takes to do the job.

[JoeDirt]

Robert wendt its clear you have no clue what your referring to. The benefits of those who are in iraq are not something that people should be fighting over. infact if you do become a part of our forces, they will provide you with a free college education, and health care for life. WOW. I'd have to say volunteer firefighters have no benefits they shouldnt have. I wouldnt necessarily consider them a social club either because most of the time its a place to relax between calls. Additionally as far as government regulation, theres a company called ISO out there, again if you were a firefighter or had any knowledge you'd know this. They are a branch of regulation pertaining to peoples fire insurance and infact they support the number of vehicles fire depts. own, along with the fire station locations. Fire engines cant be refurbished any longer, it costs just as much to buy a new one. aside from that, they wear out and parts are no longer needed. as for the case with huge firestations. each and every one of the new firehouses were approved by the taxpayers from each respective fire district. I think you better do some more research cause your wrong.

[Thanks to Harris Hill FD]

I randomly came across this article while looking for something else on the website.
On the night of November 28th, 2007, my brother was involved in a two car motor vehicle accident at the intersection of Harris Hill Road and Werhle Road. As he passed through the intersection, he was struck on the driver’s side by a vehicle that ran through the red light. From what I have gathered, my brother’s vehicle came to rest along a brick wall and he remained trapped inside with multiple injuries. My initial contact was from my mother, whom had received the notification of the accident from my sister-in-law. My mother described my sister-in-law’s tone as urgent, and that she did not have any other details other than there had been an accident, the local fire department responded, and was performing extrication. Extrication using the “Jaws of Life” was performed in a rapid and professional manner. To this day, my brother is still on a long road to recovery with some serious injuries. However, and most importantly, he is able to be with us today thanks to the actions of those Volunteer Firemen that night.
The Fire Department was Harris Hill Fire Company, and there isn't a day that passes that I am not thankful for their professional volunteerism. This is not all about dollars and cents, but rather the service provided. I doubt the writer of this article took the appropriate amount of time to thoroughly research the facts before making this erroneous report.

[robert wendt]

Board162478 - put on your glasses and LOOK at the pic of the Harris Hill Fire Dept building and drive around and LOOK at others....this excess and the millions in the bank tell a story....if you dont see it ...well...not much else to say to you....... We are going down the same path that got retired Hamburg Police Chief Coggins (and others) over $100,000 a year pension.....police, public employees and teachers were under paid years ago - look at them now.........ever hear of "nip it in the bud" ?....an ounce of prevention - is worth a pound of cure......one would have to be ignorant to not appreciate and recognize the service that volunteers provide - but EVERY entity needs oversight.....even the govt -supposedly has checks and balances.....this opposition to the suggestion of public review is the troubling part of this discussion.....resistance to change from the status quo is what I see here - The chiefs and asst chiefs are driving new SUVs 24/7 and the fire halls are overly expensive showpieces - as are the vehicles - gold leafed and all shiney.....take a look at what Niagara Falls Air Base fire dept looks like - and what kind of vehicles they have to fight fires.....the "boys toys" and fancy halls in the suburbs are too expensive in todays world economy - We the taxpayers deserve to have a say in where/how big and how funded...since we pay the bills- millions in the bank doesnt make one feel like some kind of a racket isnt going on either.....

[Fire Chief]

I have been involved with the Volunteer Fire Service for 15+ years and currently serving as Chief. The tone that I got out of the article is not whether or not the Volunteer Fire Service is doing a good job or not. We all know and it is proven that they save municipalities money annually (pension retirements, health care etc.). I can see where eyebrows can be raised where residents see incoming budget money and money that is on our savings. What the Buffalo News failed to report on is what equipment did the Fire Company need to purchase that year? Did the Fire Department fail to get a Federal Grant which they were hoping to get to help offset their cost? You talk to any Fire Company out there they are trying to be financially responsible especially for big purchases like trucks, Air Packs, Gear, helmets, radios, pagers, medical physicals etc. This equipment does not come cheap. I have a capital replacement plan for all my major pieces of equipment. We budget this and send this to the municipality for approval. I would much rather budget for it and start saving rather than floating a loan with interest over the next 10-15years. It’s a lot smarter and again we’re thinking about the residents.

I am not condoning large amounts in the reserves but the Fire Companies need to be fiscally responsible and each Fire Company knows what their needs are. If they can validate the need then fine. Remember there are Fire Protection Districts that get their revenues through the municipalities that agree on the end all figures. Then there are Commissioned Districts that levy their own taxes with publicly elected Commissioners.

Again, going back to my original statement the companies need to ensure they are being responsible. Personally speaking we are. I encourage anyone that wants to volunteer to do so and see what it is like and the amount of time we do spend away from our families to ensure that we are properly trained.

[Cadillacjack]

".....this opposition to the suggestion of public review is the troubling part of this discussion.....Robert Wendt"

Mr. Wendt, spot-on observation! This is the entire basis of the news article, and is exactly what Ford Beckwith was striving to achieve. Nobody is saying the cash reserves are uneccesary or imprudent given this current economy. But since they are taxpayer funded, they require, in fact demand, to be transparent to the public. Any arguement to the contrary would logically be considered an act of concealment.

[Ford Beckwith]

It seems the Volunteer Fire Fighters are out in force to defend their outrageous handouts gotten at the public's expense. The issue isn't respect for the fire fighters as many of you wish to twist this story into. It's about the fact that people are having their mortgages and escrow increase each year so these fire companies can stash away thousands and millions of dollars. Their has to be a better way of doing things and yes I have uncovered a problem and we have elected officials to figure out a way to fix it.

It's time to quit handing out tax dollars without real accountability and oversight. The Big Tree Volunteer Fire Company has not had to report to any town official and as stated in the article, there are plenty of other fire companies close by to handle their calls. We are in no need of a different fire company every mile or two. In today's day and age we can safely provide the same same service to a town with only one or two fire companies. Hamburg has nine. That's a lot of tax dollars being wasted and i for one am involved to be a tax payer advocate. Like it or not, their is no need for so many fire companies in Hamburg or any town with more than two.

[outraged]

Good Evening "Mr. Wendt" How typical of a male (sorry guys) to think and speak with his *#@! (use your imagination) and assume that a lack of estrogen is what persuaded me in to thinking that a homeland security person ( such as Michael Chertoff??!! perhaps) could do a better job fighting fires than a highly trained volunteer in any one of the MANY local ares where they so willingly serve. And just for the record..how do you know my husband hasn't just been home on leave and that was an ESTROGEN HIGH you were just seeing? IN any case, your inept and inappropriate comments aside, I stand by my earlier post, ONLY well trained, up to date FIREFIGHTERS need to be serving the communities in this capacity. Feel free to join. OH. I forgot, You don't even live in or pay taxes in Harris Hill, the district and Company you are so happy to bash.....or do you?

[John Krieger]

Hey Ford Beckwith, Why dont you join the VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPT yourself so you can see what it costs to protect our communtiy. I guess it doesn't pay enough.
Volunteer pay.... 0 dollars
Serving my communty...priceless
GET A JOB FORD