An historic -- and controversial -- climate change bill

   WASHINGTON -- No matter what you think of the bill the House passed Friday, one thing is for sure: the approval of legislation combating climate change was an historic first.

   Never before had either body of Congress been able to agree on legislation aimed at curbing the emissions of greenhouse gases. And it took weeks of jawboning and favor-granting on the part of the Democratic leadership to win this particular victory for President Obama.

   However, any bill with 1,200 pages of details could be packed with devils -- and that's just what Republicans argued. They said the bill's complex system for trading pollution credits would amount to a new tax that would push energy prices higher.

   "Cap and trade" or "cap and tax?"

   That is the question.

   -- Jerry Zremski

Comments

[Dave Marx]

Incredible! Simply incredible.

After rushing through an almost trillion dollar, 900 plus page Stimulus Package, without anyone except the speed reader reading it, we now have a 1500 page Cap and Tax bill through the House. I don’t suppose anyone has read that one, right? Am I the only one that finds that disturbing? I don’t care if you’re a Republican, Democrat, or whatever, does anyone really think this is a good thing? (how many unintended consequences are built into this mess?)

Every time gasoline goes up a quarter around here you have Senator Schumer going up before a camera complaining about price gauging. When gas goes up to $4 and/or $5 per gallon, who’s everyone going to blame then? Or when electric bills double or natural gas prices skyrocket again?

And why in the world would our President say that it’s a job creation bill and cite Spain as the model? Spain has an 18.1% unemployment rate! (look it up) Denmark is the other country cited as a model. Their unemployment is over 13%. We’re bad enough at over 9%, but we want to emulate them?

[BobbyCat]

I have not read the bill so I can't comment on its merits but the symbolism of America finally joining the world, battling global warming is important.

The GOP wants to kick the can down the road - leave global warming for the next generation to cope with, that, along with health care. They say 'no' to everything. I'm glad that Congress said yes to some bitter medicine. The President has been facing all the problems that have been ignored for many years. They say his plate is full. No doubt. It should be.

[Ed R]

1200 pages and no one knows what's in it. Everything is moving too fast in this COngress. Obama just wants it passed without debate and Pelosi agrees. The senate will scrutinize this bill and will not pass it.

[Don H]

The positive effect of this bill is much in doubt. How much of a difference in global warming will result, when China continues to open a new coal-fired electric producing plant every two weeks and the developing nations have no limits on carbon producing emmissions? One thing is not in doubt. The cap and trade part of this legislation will cause the cost of electricity to rise steeply. How does this help the consumer, industry and job creation? The administration continues the rush to economic calamity.

[jd]

This was not the time, not now, I feel once the Senate gets an ear full they will reject it. One thing this bill does is it forces the country to adopt California building standards and codes. Yep that's right new federal codes that over rule our state and county or town. If your windows or furnace or appliances are more than 5 years old you will pay a penalty tax before you can sell, or you must replace up to code for new owner. Obama is a Moron, he himself said our electric costs will sky rocket. What happened to the campaign promise of posting all bills on the web for 5 days prior to any vote ? They added 300 pages at 3 am, nobody read it nobody. This guy is a freaking liar and a moron, enough of this guy, enough. This will amount to the highest tax increase in HISTORY, everything will go up. The burden this will put on American business will close their doors or drive them out of our country. Educate your self people, he knows he will lose his edge in 2010 and is on a quest to pass as many of these lefty loon bills as he can.
How in HELL can we trust Obama Pelosi and Reid to do the right thing ? They gotta go, this country must rise up and take our country back.

[gravedancer]

Just once I love it if Jerry Zremski would actually talk to our reps in DC. I would love to know the reasons why Higgins and Slaughter voted for it and Lee against. Anyone else notice how quiet the Buffalo News is on these critical votes. I firmly believe if the other party was in power, there would be news items continuously how it would harm the nation.

[jd]

gravedancer
Right on' I'd like to have the news ask Higgins & Slaughter if they read the bill. I've said this before and will continue to say it, the tax eaters the bottom 50% of those who contribute less than 3% of all taxes collected outvoted the tax payers many of which are the one's who sign the paychecks and carry the burden of this country on their shoulders.
I firmly believe Obama broke the spirit of this country with his war on prosperity and his share the wealth philosophy.
Many of the Obama supporters are waiting with their hands out for the free free free they were promised. I have news for them the check isn't in the mail.

[Neil]

"Under my plan of a cap-and-trade system, electricity rates would necessarily sky-rocket. Even...regardless of what I say about whether or not coal is good or bad. Because I'm capping greenhouse gasses, coal-powered plants, you know, natural gas, you name it, whatever the plants were, whatever the industry was they would have to retrofit their operations. That will cost money. They will pass that money onto consumers." - Barack Obama (January 2008)

[Neil]

In Obama's own words at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQsIBtwUh6Q

Enjoy!

[Comino Reality]

Righty rhetoric does not do a fine job in defending family values or the environment.

Imperfection is found in the greatest abundance in your lock stepping dance to the tune of rad, right wing, radio talk show puppets for corporate world.

[Neil]

CR....whose right rhetoric are you referring to? Certainly you don't mean me, I only quot verbatim what the President has said.....in his own words not a syllable more.

[Jeff S]

Grab ankle. It's gonna hurt this time.

Our politicians are scientifically and economically ignorant. And we're gonna pay and pay and pay this time, like we never have before. Eight years of neocon rubbish and I'm still leaning republican, just because of garbage like this getting passed.

What a disaster. As hard as it is to consider, the Obama administration might actually end up doing more damage to America than GWB's did.

How truly disturbing.

[jd]

Comino
Those were Obama's words not Neil's,,,,,,,,when will you people see the light ?
This was not the time to tie the hands of American business. China and India and most other countries will not comply to such restrictions.
Without doubt this will result in the highest tax increase in history. The promise of 95% getting a tax decrease was a bold face lie.
Obama promised everything under the sun to get elected and the majority bought it.
The Senate must stop this bill and I'm sure when the people understand the damage it will do to each and every one of us the Senate will vote NO to save their jobs.

[jd]

Neil
Thanks for the you tube link, I suggest all the Obama voters watch it.
The over $100.00 a month increase in energy costs is only the start and will be a huge burden for those on fixed incomes. The national building code will stop this country in its tracks.

[Dave Marx]

Still, no one has answered my question; only thrown insults. Does anyone honestly think it's a good idea to pass such a far ranging and transormational bill without anyone reading it? I realise no one here has read it, but don't you think the people who voted should have?

Would you buy a car that came with a 200 page contract and not read it?

[Danno]

Manmade global warming is a myth.

Has anyone told our congressmen that the climate has been cooling since 2001?

Does anyone actually believe that passing this bill will cool the climate anyway?

Thank God this bill will never pass the Senate.

[jd]

I'm looking forward to seeing Obama dressed down in the Senate. He will be made to look the rookie he is, the country will see the real Obama and his lack of clear vision and thought.. We may even see the beginning of the end of the love affair betwen Obama and the press.
People are sick of seeing his face everyday, his ABC infomercial was last in ratings even reruns beat him.

[Dave Marx]

The front page of today's news, "Pain at the Gas Pump".

When will the News point out the FACT that this bill would increase the price of all energy? When will the News do an article detailing how well Spain and Denmark are doing with their Green Jobs initiative? When will the News ask any of our elected politicians where they're getting any of this stupid information from? How about asking Slaughter or Higgins where these new jobs they're promoting are coming from? And how much will we have to pay to get these Green jobs? Will it be like the Yahoo jobs, paying them millions for a lousy 100 jobs? And after the development funds dry up, then what? I predict they'll move operations to China where they won't have to worry about that country taking all their viable energy sources off the table.

[OPMike]

The Buffalo News is in love with Barack Obama and is in lock-step with his leftist rhetoric. They will not even look at the mass of evidence that runs counter to the Obama & Gore song and dance routine that erroneously concludes that global warming is a man made event.

The long term trend line shows that the earth has warmed incrementally over tens of thousands of years. Short term fluctuations in temperature, either up or down, over a few decades or centuries, do not alter this naturally occurring phenomenon.

The earth will continue to warm naturally until naturally occurring events reverse the trend and the earth enters into another prolonged period of global cooling and glaciation.

No amount of name calling, rhetoric, foot stomping, legislation by the U.S Congress or international treaties will change this inconvenient truth.

[Hank]

"Cap and Trade"? This could be the Capstone of Utter Futility. If Piers Corbin's science is correct, The Obama Administration together with Congress may have opened Pandora's Box.
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?cl=14140016

[jd]

Hank
It seems more and more experts across the world agree with Corbin. The writers at the Buffalo news won't write anything that Buffett may not like because one phone call could end their job. I can understand that' we may start seeing some articles that are negative towards Obama's policies because recently Buffett himself has come out against the direction Obama is going, change is in the wind.
The Senate and media will have time to examine the cap and tax bill just passed and it's sure to make Obama look like a MORON.
This bill was rushed through without anyone reading it, Obama was cutting all kinds of deals to get this done.
The American people are starting to ask why the rush ? Obama promised to post on net 5 days prior to any bill being signed.
This will all come out, it's about time the honeymoon is over.

[jd]

I should of said Obama promised to post on net 5 days prior to any vote.

[Neil]

jd.....you're right! I seem to remember hearing a campaign promise of Obama's about openness and transparency in the legislative process. Instead we get a 300 page amendment to a 1200 page bill to raise energy prices at 4:00 AM the day of the vote. That's transparent all right. Transparently sneaky. Think anyone in the media will hold their feet to the fire on it though?

[Barton Keyes]

There is an ugly reality behind all the political posturing by Republicans and Democrates.
The Republicans proclaim that the issue is all about freedom of choice versus the Democrats desire to create a socialistic health care plan that will reduce the publics choice by driving out private insurance plans.
The Democrats proclaim that a public health plan needs to be created to keep the private insurance companies honest so as to prevent their gauging the public to preserve their high profits.
This is the political posturing we continually see in Washington every time health care reform is attempted.
The reality is that both plans ultimately limit the choice that can be made by individuals. In the free market plan, choice is limited by the money any individual has to purchase insurance. Insufficient funds invariably means an inadeqaute health care plan. In the government dominated plan choice is often made by regulation and government mandate. And the prices paid to doctor's are low enough many doctor's refuse more than a limited number of low oaying patients to their practise.
And this is so because the harsh reality is that there is practically speaking not enough money to pay for all the health care everyone could use. This has resulted in companies dropping or reducing health care plans, and both Medicare/Medicaid rapidly going broke.
And if the history of medical care in the US has taught us anything it is that neither the free market nor government control has been effective for more than short periods in regulating the increasing cost of health care that persistently out races inflation.

[Dave Marx]

Excellent points Barton. Trying to get past the rehtoric from both sides is pretty bizarre.

I recently had to get an MRI on my neck. Afterward I was curious as to what the average wait was in Canada. So I searched on Google for "average wait time in Canada for an MRI". Across Canada, it averages out to 10 weeks. Some Provinces shorter, some longer. My wait from the time my doctor gave me the script, to having the MRI was 4 days. That's only anecdotal but, wow.