'70s third team tops '90s, '00s first teams

While the debate rages on the blog over the snubbing of Ray Hall -- and we stand by our 1980s picks -- let's throw another log on the all-time All-WNY basketball fire.

It says here, the third team on the 1970s squad would beat the first team of the 1990s or the 2000s.

The 70s third team: G Tyrone Beaman, G Phil Scafidi, F Ollie Harper, F LaVerne Evans, C Jim Johnstone.

The 90s first team: G Tim Winn, G Jason Rowe, F Mike Heary, F Leonard Stokes, F Eric Eberz.

The 00s first team: G Johnny Flynn, G Rodney Pierce, G/F Julius Page, F Paul Harris, C Charlie Comerford.

First, the 90s matchup. Winn was a great defensive player, who would have given any guard trouble in any era. But Scaffidi managed to bring the ball up against Dwight Williams, who was better than Winn overall. He would have given up some turnovers, but Winn could not have covered both Scafidi and Beaman. The 70s team would have gotten the ball up court, and then it would have been over, because nobody on the 90s team would have stopped the 6-11 Johnstone, who played at Wake Forest and spent a season in the NBA. Harper was as physical as Stokes and more physical than Heary and Eberz. Evans could have covered Heary or Eberz outside. Game over.

Onto the 2000s game, which presents matchup problems for both sides. Flynn is better than Scaffidi or Beaman, but not so much better to dominate the game. The 00s would have had to put Harris on Evans, but then the 6-3 Page would have been forced to guard the more physical Harper, and the 6-7 Comerford would have to cover the 6-11 Johnstone. Big edge inside to the 70s third-teamers. On the other end of the court, the 2000s wouldn't score much inside. Harris would be tough for Evans to cover but Harris would have to do all of his damage in transition and on the perimeter. Higher-percentage baskets would win it for the 70s.

---Mark Gaughan

Comments

[Hollywood]

Dear class of 75
Thanks 4 responding to my article on the Class of the 70's. I WOULD LIKE 2 LET U KNOW THAT YOU STATED THAT THE 1971 STAR WAS HAWK.WELL HAWK AND ROBERT ALEXANDER R THE SAME PERSON AS HAWK WAS HIS NICKNAME!I SAID HE WAS ALL HIGH IN 72 INSTEAD OF 71 ADDING 2 THE CONFUSION

[seeker]

As someone who regularly saw (usually from the bench)and occasionally played against the best MMA players from 1971-5, I am enjoying this debate. I also saw some of the era's public school players that are being discussed.

There is no denying that the 70s were the golden age of WNY high school hoops. The fact that so many players went on to D1 schools (or could have if not for academic or behavioral issues)is proof of just how good they were in the day.

HOWEVER, have you watched the old pro and college games shown on MSG, ESPN CLASSIC and other networks? We/they weren't as good as we remember. There has been considerable improvement in players' strength, athleticism and overall skill level (although some do lack certain fundamentals).

I am not sure if each decade has been better across the board than the preceding decade but there is no way the 70's third team could beat this decade's first team. It would be interesting to hear Jim Boeheim compare Bug Williams with Jonny Flynn, having coached them both.

By the way, a Turner High School class of 1976 player is still in the NBA - as a referee. Rodney Mott.

[CLASSOF75]

HEY HOLLYWOOD,
THE 72 STAR AT EMERSON WAS HANK SHAW, 71 WAS HAWK, AND 73 WAS EDDIE MARK, DAVE SPILLER AND HANK SHAW, 74 WAS EDDIE MARK, TYRONE WILLIAMS, ROOK GOLDSTON AND SPOOK INGRAM, 75 WAS ROOK GOLDSTON, LAMONT LANE AND TREVOR ROBINSON. MAYBE ROBERT ALEXANDER WAS FROM ANOTHER SCHOOL OR YEAR.

[00's supporter]

Keith,

Stick up for your boys a little more. Do you honestly think Comerford would need help with Jim Johnstone?? You seen him play against bigger and better guys than that and dominate the game. On the flip side of that, do you think he could check Comerford endline to endline. Personally, I dont. Also, I think Page would do fine inside checking as a 3. Great debate though guys, love the idea.

[Mark Gaughan]

I agree with Franklin. I'm worried about the ability of Beaman to defend Flynn. Flynn would get his points, no question. But Beaman, Evans (who is super athletic) and Scaffidi would get back in transition. Beaman and Scaffidi would be able to manage the tempo. And don't forget, Beaman and Scaffidi and Evans would not be making turnovers. It would be a very good game. The '00s would do damage in transition, no question, but not enough. The '70s win by 4.

Regarding Patton, he was a great, great player. He was Parade all-America because he was one of the top College Prospects in the country. But the No. 1 draft pick in the NBA very often isn't the Wooden Award winner as college player of the year. It's the guy the pros think will be the best pro (aka Greg Oden). Patton might have been a great NBA 3-man. He had crazy skills for a 6-9 guy. But he didn't dominate enough as a high school player to make the first team. He wasn't physical against the h.s. competition he faced. Russell and Montgomery dominated much, much more as big men. ... I respect the opinion of Patton supporters, however. They have reason to argue. Over and out.

[Franklin]

Johnstone - solid ACC center
Evans - great scorer
Harper - steady player
Scaffidi - as high a bball IQ as there ever was
Beamon - outstanding SEC guard

They win and everyone scratches their head afterwards becuause Harris & Page thrilled the crowd with a few rim rattling dunks. You see it in bball every night of the week.

[Hollywood]

Sorry but I got so involved in that last article thg I forgot to mention who the 6'3" 8th grader I was taljing about in 69-70! IT WAS NONE OTHER THAN ALL 70'S PICK AND FORMER EAST STANDOUT BIG MIKE RUSSELL

[Hollywood]

Ah,the seventies-high school romance,not a care in the world and high school baskets! First memory- An already 6'3" in 8th grade leads our West Hertel Middle School in iits inaugriable (1st year opened) to the city middle school championship. His point guard that year was Grover quarterback Diminutiive Duane Howard who led the Preridents 2 them Harvard Cup in 74. Did he or 72 All High pick Emersons Robert Ajlexander recieve any votes or recognition when the all 70's team was picked? What about Lafayettes Wes Caramackt Hutch Techs Marv Richardson, Riversides English brothers-Billy Joe,Willie Joe or Harry? And one more-when high school Bball first became a big part of my life, I repeatedly heard the name Mike Norwood who played at either Eart or Tech,but I think it was EAST.CAN ANYONE HELP ME OUT ON THESE GUYS PLEASE.

[Keith McShea]

TML beat me to the spot on this one -- just like my 2000s squad would be a step (or five) quicker than this outstanding 70s side.

A great fantasy hoops discussion though ... one thing to keep in mind is that our all-star hoop teams -- and this goes for every season -- are picked regardless of position. So the 70s third team poses matchup problems because they've got a great big guy.

I also think Harris and his linebacker frame would be pitch in on defense guarding Johnstone -- I know the 70s was loaded, but if he was so dominant in high school, he wouldn't be on the third team.

Flynn would be at his very best with a group like this with which he would play the point (like he does at SU). Flynn was (remarkably) the eighth man on the 2005 Federation title team as a sophomore and was relied on to be a superscorer his remaining two years. So ...

wait a second ... did you hear that? ...

Oh, it was the 2000s team fast-breaking their way to another basket. Did you see the way Pierce lobbed it up for that sick dunk by Page? Whoa.

Anyways ...

Flynn would be unguardable, creating opportunities for guys who don't miss.

Throw in the fact that Mark's smack-talkin' post would be on the 2000s team's locker room bulletin board and I'll take the 2000s guys by at least 12.

[Milt Latimer]

And whatever fictional fantasyland game you want to create...Ray Hall comes off the bench to take over the game and win MVP honors! lol

[TML1000]

Just because they were bigger doesn't make them better.

The 2000 team in particular would be running all over the 70's team. You have inconsistencies in your logic...such as, Flynn would not dominate the 70's guards but Johnstone would dominate Comerford...I think you are selling Charlie way too short. He was a tenacious and physical presence. I think the 2000's team would give the 70's 2nd team a run for their money and would beat them if Chris Patton was at his rightful spot on the 1st team. Glaring omission there...Patton was incredible....2nd only to Mel Montgomery.