Calling Afinogenov fans

I'm curious about something, and it has to do with last week's story about the Sabres putting Maxim Afinogenov on the trade market. There's a feature on our Web site at the bottom right of the pages that tracks "Most Popular Stories, Last 24 Hours." Usually, a story will go up in the morning, stick around the popular side for a day (maybe two), then get replaced by something newer. The Max story, which went up Friday, was still in the top 10 this afternoon. I've never seen staying power like that before.

I know there was already a little blog asking if Max should be traded, but I want to know what it is about Afinogenov that makes his fans so passionate. What is there that makes a story about him retain interest for that long?

He is not the face of the franchise, doesn't do big autograph signings like some other players and is secretive as can be about even the smallest aspects of his life, yet his jersey was one of the league's top sellers. So what is it about Max that draws so much interest?

---John Vogl

Comments

[dave]

I never felt Max is the answer but I feel he was mishandled during his career.There are very few EURO players who are dedicated to the game.Perfect example is Mats Sundin great player with no drive. Perrault wa a great Sabre but any true fan knows that Gil just wanted to be one of the boys and could have been a lot better. When Ruff took over there was team chemistry. Lindy had the choice chemistry or longevity coaching, he took Hasek and played defensive hockey and left wing lock to keep a job. He dumped a dedicated core that stuck together for example only Boughner,May,Boulton.When the game changed he tried to go the other way and now the game basically can be played with all forwards,no helmets or pads.Years ago no one wanted to come into our building to play, hard bunch lunch pail gang.Now teams come in and dont even play their starting goalies.Games would sell out in hours and standing room would sell out in the old aud.Change colors of uniforms for each day, instigator penalties, why not have a time out chair.Canadians and American players are really the only true players with drive. The Euro player comes here for money and they change the rules to their benefit. Bring back old time hockey and dump the 3 stooges.

[ZAP]

Scoop, I hope someone else in this leagues believes that because obviously we do not have that centerman hear since we have tried him with every combination Ruff could come up with. Hopefully we can get something of value for him. His freewheeling style makes it hard for linemates to determine where he is going. He would drive any quality centerman nuts. If you look at majorty of high scoring wingers past and present the majority of them are strong up in down there wing and in front of net. Lafluer, Bossy, Gare, Inglia to name a few. I would love Max to be productive player we hoped he would be, but it is time to cut bait and move on.

[ElmaGolf]

ZAP - I have no problem with being biased. Gilbert is my favorite as well (with Schony a close second).

[Don F]

*

1) I agree completely with this guy:
"Max is like the great shot you hit on the 18th hole of a complete crap round. Keeps you coming back for more thinking there may just be something worthwhile there."
*

2) Change "Max" to "Buddy Hackett" and I'd agree with this guy:
*
"Put Max with a real playmaking center and he'll score 50 goals."
*

[Scoop77]

Put Max with a real playmaking center and he'll score 50 goals.

[Lloyd Marshall, Jr.]

"As always, it bears repeating: Lloyd is an idiot."

Translated: Chad is the real idiot.

[ZAP]

Elma, I will abmit whatching film on the games in the 70's and 80's the play certainly looks slower and you would question how many of those players could play in todays games where the majority of players are bigger and faster. There are still plenty of former HOF that would still excell today in there prime, and I think Gil in his prime would out play Afingonev today all day long. That being said , I grew up watching Gil and he is my all time favorite so I may be a little bias.

[ElmaGolf]

ZAP - "Perreault in his era HALL A FAME INDUCTEE"

Exactly my point - "IN HIS ERA." There's no way to honestly compare players from different eras.

The skill level of players is constantly increasing, and so is the competition.

Perrault was superior relative to the players of his era, but that doesn't necessarily mean he was more skilled than most players today.

I'm not trying to defend Max - he's not "outplaying" the people of his era, and that's the only real measure that counts.

But when you try to compare the "objective skill" of players 30 years apart, you really have to acknowledge that the "average skill" is far superior now.

Ty Conklin or Marty Biron display much more skill, flexibility & reflexes than Gerry Cheevers or Ken Dryden ever did. It's just a different game.

[Bster]

Max has Ken Yaremchukitis. Fastest skater on the ice who might just be too fast for his own brain/hands. Todd Stottlemyer used to have it all...save for the pitching brain required to be consistent.

Max is like the great shot you hit on the 18th hole of a complete crap round. Keeps you coming back for more thinking there may just be something worthwhile there. There is, but it aint about to hold surface for long enough to swim.

Max will haunt those who agree with getting rid of him, and then he will prove them right the very next game. Give Ruff a break....Cut rope.

[ZAP]

Elma, Pretty simple comparison. Perreault in his era HALL A FAME INDUCTEE. Max in his era will be traded hopefully for a 2nd round pick. Afinogov will not be last player that displays alot of skill but lack the intagibles to make him a consistent top notch player.

[ElmaGolf]

RE - Comparing Max to Perreault.

Simply put - it's impossible to do. They could be identical players, but there'd be no comparisons since they played in completely different eras.

I don't mean to disrespect the accomplishments of the players in the 70's (I loved the French Connection), but watching Classic Games on NHL Network is eye-opening.

The defensemen from the 70's were essentially glorified pylons in open ice, and the Goalies had all the technique of their Bubble Hockey Counterparts. You want a "soft goals" discussion? - you'd call 50% of the goals in the 70s "soft" by today's standards.

Perrault could never get away with an end to end meandering against today's defenses - he'd have been concussed years ago.

Max's skill would have been incredible in the 70s, but there's just too many variables (equipment, ice conditions, goalie technique, officiating tendencies, etc.) to ever make a comparison. Max is exciting to watch when the nature of the game allows (as in 2005-06) but the game's just too different now for him to be effective unless he relies on his linemates more.

[ZAP]

Chad, That was meant for Lloyd and Dave. Sorry about that.

[Chad]

Um, ZAP, I agree with you. I was calling Lloyd an idiot because he is always bashing Ruff and never makes a good point. I think it would be one of the biggest losses yet if the team lost Ruff. You're preaching to the choir, my friend.

[ZAP]

Chad, What players/coach that has been to the finals and won that is out there available ? Lindy record over his tenure would match up strongly against all other coaches and is certainly above 500. We have had alot of players come and go lately and as we all agree left not happy w/ mgt but I have not heard alot of complaints about Lindy's coaching style. We always want to blame the coach if a team does not win it all. During his tenure he has had the luxury of one potenatil MVP and that is Hasek, and besides Hasek how many other players that he has had to coach will go to the HOF ? My feeling is he has consistently gottenm more out of his roster then expected. And as good as the record was for the last years Presidents Cup team which we all thought should win it all it had weaknesses, which mgt failed to address. Toughness upfront and on defence was never addressed and was exposed against Ottawa. We had a better shot the year before , which was not LIndys fault but the injuries were to much to over come.This is not to endorce Lindy as all world he is not perfect , but give me someone today that we should hire that is.

[Chad]

As always, it bears repeating: Lloyd is an idiot.

[Lloyd Marshall, Jr.]

"Dave, That was some good stuff..."

Yes, Dave spoke truth.

"(F)or the record Ruff is 397-320-103 thats why he has a long tenure."

And he hasn't gotten the Sabres into the Stanley Cup winners' circle. The debacle with Ottawa in the '07 ECF was his EXIT sign.

If Golisano et. al. want the fans supporting the team, they need to do the right thing and bring in players/coaches who can accomplish things... who have "been there" and "done that," which means... who have won the Cup, and can imbue the team with that same spirit.

[ZAP]

Dave, That was some good stuff, whatever you are smoking give me some. Max a hitter, Lindy Ruff team quit on him, for the record Ruff is 397-320-103 thats why he has a long tenure. Sator that just funny anyone would even remember him. Though I am not a Quinn for or think mgt has made all the right decisions but to pick just the bad ones you could do that with every team. We have been on the positive side on lots of transactions (Dumont, Briere,Hasek,Satan, Lydman,Grier,Warrener) to name a few. True fans are there for the good and the bad. What are you????

[Bster]

Dave,

I must say you certainly do amuse. Please visit the BillsBoard and speak of how much the Bills suck as well. Mention Ronnie Harmon once and I am like butter.

Personally, I can never get enough of such garbage. I harbour strange attractions. You and Cliff together would break me down to little pieces. Please, keep on spouting....

[Jan]

Matt- I agree with you --Max has had time in the NHL to become an all-around player and he hasn't done that. He still hasn't figured out that, even with his skill and speed, he should be working hard every shift, every period, every game to help his team win games. He could probably help another team; they should trade him to get a player who understands the concept of teamwork.

[Hambone Johnson]

Dave - interesting post, especially the part about trading Ballard. That was the first part of the deal that landed Drury here for four years.

It never ceases to amaze me how much people enjoy bringing up past Sabres and making them out to be the greatest the town has ever seen. Cory Sarich? 9 years in the league - 12 career goals and a career -37. If he was still a Sabre, people would have been begging for him to be traded for the last four years. Since he's not, he's gold.

Every single team in the league has a ton of talented ex-players on other teams. Buffalo fans have such a complex that they believe all ex-sabres are great and the current ones stink. Watch another team for once. Start with Washington, the team everyone was fawning over a week ago. They are GARBAGE. If they played in our division, they would not be in the playoffs.

[dave]

I think Max is a perfect example of the Sabres problem.Originall Lindy benched him for not playing defense. Then the game changed and Lindy wanted a 50 goal scorer.At times Max was the biggest hitter on the ice.They dont know what they want and you can see this guy has talent.They pay Tim Connelly tons of money for minnimal playing time.He is always hurt and laughing all the way to the bank. Teppo was not a needed player,there were better on the market but Darcy declined.Players quit on Ruff as he did on Sator.Ruff playing 500 hockey became the winningest coach. That is a joke.No sports organization would allow 12yrs of nothing, and this is a disgrace to the loyal fans of Buffalo.No fan believed in Larry Quinn.Everthing Buffalo needs was traded away.Campbell,Boucher,Sarich,Hasek.Wideman,Ballard.This is a disgrace and the pork barrel payoffs to the media does not help.We need to clean house not hear promises.Gerbe looks good but how many smurfs can a team have,usually one we have six.Media sold us on Miller and he isnt that bad maybe not the savior though.Were no farther ahead then we were with Nolan in 96

[Henry]

Max is a representation of everything wrong with this team. He has speed as an asset but beyond that is a waste of salary. He lacks leadership, toughness, is inconsistent and someone who has been given more than a chance to become a marquis player which he hasn't. He is merely a representation of managment making wrong decisions as to who should stay and who should go. He only teases with his talent and disapoints in the end. If the organization is serious about a cup, Max and Kotalik both need to go and replaced with veterans who know how to win and know what to do in the playoffs.

[Adam]

"It’s something we really have to look at with Max," Regier said at the team’s season-ending news conference. "He’s a great guy. I have only good things to say about him, but he may well be one of these players who’s ready for a change."

I, for one, see the value of trading Max in order to build a team more capable of gritting it out in the playoffs, but would miss him terribly. Not only is he an exciting player to watch, he has the very Ovechkin-like quality of celebrating goals like he just won the Stanley Cup. I find that passion and emotion an endearing quality. I still remember him jumping four feet in the air when Briere buried that overtime goal in game six against the Hurricanes two seasons ago.

[ZAP]

Max and Gilbert in the same sentence. I have said on this blog before that the majority of bloggers have had very knowlegeable opions, but comparing these two is one of the stupidiest things I've read on this blog.First and formost Perreault is a hall famer and arguably the best Sabre of all time. Perrault was a playmaker and a scorer and made his linemates better. Max struggles to even find linemates that can figure out what is going to do next. Gil in his prime was a top 10 player in the league . We will see what the league thinks of Max's value when we try a trade him. We will be lucky to get a 2nd round pick. That being said why people buy his jersey is a mystery, but like other people on this blog I had high hopes that Max would be a premier player and admired his speed and thought he had a huge upside. I ts just never heppened. People keep pointing to 2 years in a row of a point a game average. What did that equate to when the playoff came and we needed his production. Lindy had to bench during the play offs. How often was Gilbert benched. I hope the people that made these comparisons where young and did not see GIl as I did on many occasions in the Aud live. He was the greatest Sabre of all time lets not tarnish that by comparing hin to Max.

[John Vogl]

"Can someone please tell me where the entire notion that Afinogenov is expendable in the Sabres' eyes came from? ...I didn't hear any specific question or answer directed at the future of Afinogenov."

--- After the news conferences are over, reporters take one-on-one time with the speakers. It's there where you often get more in-depth answers and can work on more exclusive stories. Sometimes you have questions that you don't want all the other media outlets to get the answers to.

[TJ]

It also needs to be clarified that Afinogenov's ineffectiveness prior to the lockout returned this season because of the same reason - the NHL's tolerance-bordering-on-encouragement of the clutch and grab tactics slow players use to stop fast players.

For the two seasons coming out of the lockout, when the NHL actually honored their new rules, we all saw plain as day how effective and balanced Afinogenov was.

Moving forward, it's probably a necessity to trade Afinogenov, given the NHL dinosaurs reverting back to their old ways. But all of the constant belittling of Afinogenov by Bucky and his legion of supporters as a career waste and useless player is extremely narrow-minded and self-serving.

[TJ]

Can someone please tell me where the entire notion that Afinogenov is expendable in the Sabres' eyes came from? I listened to the entire press conference - and other than lumping both Connolly and Afinogenov into the "injuries took their toll / players have off years sometimes" category, I didn't hear any specific question or answer directed at the future of Afinogenov.

[Don F]

David, I think we're on the same page re Perrault and Max. But as to Eddie Shack, my fondest memories were AFTER the game when he happened to be one of the three stars. Do you remember what he did when he came out? Tell all the youngsters about it...

[DAVID IN BALTIMORE]

In comparing Max to Perreault, I was just trying to find some reason that fans are intrigued by him and find him exciting to watch. In Max'case, it is the mystique more than the ability. I would NEVER put him in the same class as Perreault in terms of results. I think that what puts people in the seats is action - skating, shooting, and scoring. That kind of action is crowd pleasing... end to end rushes - moreso than 1-0 games where each team gets perhaps 15 shots on goal (if that) and the game is played between the blue lines... Max can skate and move the puck. Unfortunately his ability to finish or set up plays for others is NOT Perreault-esque. And - that free wheeling style of play - in todays NHL - is not what wins Stanley Cups.

Don F - you said it was way off the mark to compare the two. Then you proceeded to do just that. Bottom line is - you and I agree - nothing compares with Perreault.

But that still leaves us with the original question. Why does Max have such a following?

The only other comparison I can make for Max might be Eddie Shack - in terms of wild, one man rushes. Any thoughts on that, Don F.?

[Don F]

WAY off the mark in comparing Max with Perrault. They had MOVES in common, that's it. In addition to other positives, Perrault was far smoother, more controlled, and knew when to pass. Seldom did he see three guys defending and try to outfox all three.

[P.E. Carr in Calgary]

The comments by Dave in Baltimore are well taken. To appreciate Max you need to see him in person, not on tv. I will never forget seeing him at HSBC on December 26, 2006 against the Caps. It is bewildering to watch the skilled moves he can make at a very high speed without losing the puck. That does remind me of Perreault, who I also was able to see play "live" instead of on tv. Is there a coach out there who could just reign Max in enough to pass the puck once in a while, or is the problem that Max is so creative that even he does not know where he is going, so how could a teammate possibly know? If the Sabres trade him, make sure it is out of our conference, because here is a guy who could really come back to bite you. You sure would not want to see him on Washingto (with Ovechkin), Pittsburgh (with Malkin) or even Ottawa.

[Mike M.]

Obviously if good trade value is out there, take it. I guess I don't believe another team would be willing to give up much for him since he will be a UFA after next season.

As far as not living up to his potential, he was a point a game player the two seasons prior to this. What more do you want out of the guy. He was hurt and had a down season this year. Sometimes it amazes me that people (particularly sports writers who profess to be "experts") seemingly have no grasp of the fact that athletes have good and bad years.

[Heather B.]

He's absolutely beautiful to watch even when he is a mess and his style of play is accessible to even the most casual fan. Everyone understands speed, grace, and goals.

I also think some people are fascinated by the fact that he's so private. There are a lot more unknowns about him than a lot of the other players and that's interesting for some people. He's mysterious and all that.

[Geoffrey Anger]

Speed.

It is worth remembering that not too many seasons ago--2005?--he led this team in scoring. He has been a point per game player, of which there are comparatively few. Plus he is an enigma. In a world where everything tends to be known about everyone, this exception to the rule is kind of compelling.

I guess.

[DAVE-IN-BALTIMORE-LIFETIMESABREFAN]

It is certailny an interesting question... what makes him so popular?

His upside is certainly fascinating... and yet he is a liability on the ice as well. At one time his freewheeling style (if it translates into goals) would have put fans in their seats (or maybe lifted them out of their seats). I grew up in the Gil Perreault era. Perreault had all kinds of moves. And for those of you who are my contempopraries - I remind you that we used to bemoan how often his 1 on 1 moves did not work. And - in many years he had a terrible plus / minus... much worse than Max (some years he was minus 20 or 30... look it up). Some of you will think I am nuts to compare them. How can I compare Afiniganov to Perreault and consider them to have ANY similarities? What makes the two of them so different in our eyes? If you can find video of Perreault on end to end rushes - take a look. For one thing, Perreault made it down the ice with the puck and if he broke through, he at least got a shot. Perreault had a more accurate shot - and although he often got stopped at the blue line, he also broke through - just enough to make it interesting. And -Perreault was also a playmaker who got a lot of assists... did Perreault "see" the ice better than Max? Or was it that his linemates knew how to position themselves for rebounds and passes? In that case, is the problem Max - or his linemates? Max - when he gets through, often looses the puck or can't finish the play with - at a minimum - a shot on goal or a decent pass.

I hate to compare the two, but in some ways we are talking about the same thing - gifted skating, tremendous speed and individual skills. In Perreault's day of free wheeling there was no "system" to adhere to. Maybe Max is of another time. Today most teams use "systems" and there is much less free wheeling improvisation.

I for one think Max does not fit on this team (even though my 10 year old is enamored of him) I think we should have parted company with him LAST YEAR to free up salary cap for Drury, Briere, or Campbell.

[Mimi]

While he isn't always playing by the "team system," his speed is impressive to watch. Before I even began following the Sabres on a regular basis, I heard much fanfare about Max Afinogenov, and it was mostly regarding his speed, his fancy footwork, and puck handling. It is too bad he can't find a way to make it work with the rest of the team. With a little tweaking, he could be awesome.

[Meg]

I don't think it's fair to accuse him of not understanding that hockey requires hard work, Matt. He's a player that always works hard. The problem is his decision making not his work ethic.

I do agree that people find him interesting because he's never met his potential but also just because, when he's playing well, he's such a fun player to watch. He brings excitement to the game like only a few players in the league when he's really on (which was unfortunately rare this year). And I think people were delighted that he finally seemed to have turned the corner prior to breaking his wrist last year and having trouble coming back from that. And then there was this injury-ridden disaster of a season...

As for his being secretive about his life, I think a lot of people just don't care about that. I know I don't. If he wants to keep his life private I think he has every right to do that and it seems to be more a subject that the News occasionally returns to as a negative than something that bothers the fans. I suppose the mystery could even make him more interesting to some. I also think that, in the end, fan favorites are determined more by what people see on the ice--is the player fun to watch, are they hardworking, do they stick up for their teammates--than by whether or not players do lots of autograph signings, etc.

He's not one of my favorite players (although I don't have a particular dislike for him) and I won't mind if he gets traded, but I also don't think it's so baffling that people are interested in him.

[chris]

the fact that everytime i try to search for him online, google has to show me the right way to spell his name makes him pretty sweet in my book!

[Matt]

"Minim" is compelling because he has an incredible wealth of physical skills but his production has never met his potential. All such athletes hold our interest, because we wonder, "He could have been/all the experts thought he would be one of the all-time greats, so what happened?" I'll always remember how the announcers at the last Olympics kept calling him "Crazylegs." Indeed, there might not be a better skater in hockey...his mix of agility and speed means he can pull off some incredible moves. Alas, "Minim" puts too much faith in his athletic ability, and ignores the fact that successful hockey demands 1) teamwork and 2) hard work, period.