One point on the OT goal

I am not going to crack on the officiating last night since the Penguins had exactly one power play in 61 minutes. And it would have been nice if the Sabres had simply converted opportunities to maintain their lead.

That said, maybe I'm being a cynic but I can't get away from this point on the winning goal: It's No. 87 in overtime on a Versus game. Hmmm. Think the folks in the war room in Toronto give, say, Patrick Kaleta that same call in Pittsburgh in OT on a Tuesday night with only regional television? 'Nuff said.

The Sabres are practicing early today before the Christmas break. Nathan Gerbe and Paul Gaustad have already been on the ice on their own and the rest of the team is getting ready to start its workout now (Jochen Hecht is skating after taking a puck to the ear last night).

Post-practice update: It was a hard 75-minute workout because the Sabres will be off until their morning skate Friday in Washington. Lindy Ruff initially wasn't biting when asked for some overnight reaction to the Crosby goal, saying, "It doesn't matter what I think anymore. It was ruled a goal and we'll leave it at that."

Crosby had not scored in the last nine games and Ruff let go this zinger, which exposed his real opinion, when asked about Jason Pominville's goal drought: "Look at what Crosby just went through -- or still could be going through."

---Mike Harrington

Comments

[Chad]

Michael, thanks for the response. A few things:

1) "you will never convince me of how this guy should be a first line centerman."

If for no other reason than saving time bickering over this issue, I'm glad you admitted that you can't be convinced. Regardless, based on the statistics, it's hard to dispute that he's in or near the top 10 centers in the league.

2) "Most hockey fans outside of Buffalo would NOT disagree."

Two things. First, it's of no relevance what other fans think about Roy or his abilities. Secondly, I think you'd be surprised at Roy's reputation throughout the league. One of my good buddies is a Rangers fan and I can tell you with utmost certainty that he'd take Roy over Drury. Also, considering Roy is still being considered for Team Canada in 2010 should tell you about what other people think of him, including guys like Stevie Y and Gretzky. While he may not make the team, that he's being considered speaks volumes about what others think of his abilities.

3) "One more thing my issue with Roy is not that the guy isn't talented its that he is not the guy to lead this team. He does not have the qualities to be a first line center. He is not Chris Drury or Briere. Statistics are not what creates winners, it's leadership, it's getting that goal when it's badley needed, etc."

In the leadership department, only a handful of guys can be mentioned in the same sentence as Drury. After the Iginlas and Scott Niedermayer's of the world, there aren't too many on Drury's level. That said, cut Roy some slack. He's 25 years old. Do you think Danny Briere was a leader six years ago when he was being scratched and traded to Buffalo? I think not.

As far as "scoring big goals" goes, Roy is T-2nd in the NHL with 4 game-winners. Vanek also has 4 game-winners. That's pretty clutch. Last year, Vanek had more game-winners than both Drury and Briere. I think those guys have showed that they can get it done when the chips are down, more than we can say for a lot of the dead weight on this team.

4) Finally, we will see if this team makes the playoffs. They need to get rid of some of the aforementioned dead weight. They also need to get Gerbe and Connolly back. They were much better with those two in the lineup, going 4-1 with Gerbe and 3-1-1 with Connolly before he broke his rib.

It's easy to point at the big guns, but the other guys (Hecht, Paille, Miller, et al) need to play better, too. We have Roy at $4 mil/year for the next 4+ seasons. Based on his numbers, I do think that's a steal.

Let's hope for a win tonight.

[J R]

The NHL is losing me. It's over officiated and an increasing number of the calls are marginal and make-ups. Its all Crosby, the Rangers and the Leafs/Canadians (100 years).

Who Cares??

Why trudge to a game for $150 a pair to see it end on that crap??

[Tom-Tonawanda]

The Sabres are in dire need of leadership since Briere and Drury left. Rivet is not enough. They need a strong personality in the dressing room to kick their ass when it needs kicking. Lindy cannot monitor stupidness on the ice when it happens. Bad and stupid penalties at crucial times cannot be overcome. They need personal discipline to be intact which may change the outcome of a game. They will be up-n-down all season until they get the leadership this team so badly needs.

[michael]

Chad,

Did someone spike your egg nog? First I did comment when Roy was on his streak I openly admitted I thought he looked great. Yes "great" was the wrod I used. I'm not afraid to comment when a guy plays well and he has played well recently. However, you will never convince me of how this guy should be a first line centerman. Most hockey fans outside of Buffalo would NOT disagree.

Second, I never made any comment about 08/09 salaries. I simply stated that Pomer and Roy were over rated and that their salaries are not jokes compared to other players in the league. I was simply making a point, not comparing Malikin to Roy. By the way Mr all knowing I listed 08 salaries and never mention 09 salaries. If you go back and READ you'll notice I never mentioned Pommer's modest 1+ mil contract this year.

It seems like my pre season predictions are slowly coming true. Sabres will finish 9th or 10th this year and miss the playoffs, just like I said Roy and Pommer will not live up to their contracts, (currently on track for 22 and 18 goals. Last time we had this conversation you mentioned how Pomer was on track for low 30's and Roy on track for high 20's????) and just like I said Miller is over rated so on and so on. Only time will tell Chad but I think I am right. You think your right, we will see.

One more thing my issue with Roy is not that the guy isn't talented its that he is not the guy to lead this team. He does not have the qualities to be a first line center. He is not Chris Drury or Briere. Statistics are not what creates winners, it's leadership, it's getting that goal when it's badley needed, etc. etc Dereck Roy is not that guy. Plain and simple. Most in the hockey world would tend not to disagree.

By the way to be honest and open, I definatley did not advocate signing Vanek after the 05/06 year. I remembered the uninspiring/lazy play and I do remember him getting scratched. But I doubt anyone new that his agent would'nt talk to the Sabres. That would have been a hard sell to Vanek if the Sabres offered 1 mill less per year early in that year. Just like both Briere and Drury stated they would have taken less money earlier in the year as opposed to back half of the year. Sports are unpredictable, injuries, unproductive play are realities, and agents aren't stupid. Gaureented money is sometimes worth taking.

[dumbunny]

I think Lindy should keep his mouth shut a little more often as Vanek hasn`t been the same since the old turtle himself didn`t like the way Vanek was playing,Scoring 24 goals and he doesn`t like his play?,what a goof ball if you ask me.

[CalgarySabre2]

Merry Christmas to all. If the weather (and Westjet) co-operate, my oldest son and I leave for Ottawa and the world juniors tomorrow. So I probably won't post until January 7. In the meatime, as one last comment: The Sabres drafting is pretty good. Both of the "Tyler" picks (Myers and Ennis) are on Canada's roster, and that is not an easy feat. There are some excellent players on the Calgary Hitmen who did not even get invited to the camp. Where the Sabres have (maybe) fallen down in the past is in actually signing their picks. Sometimes that is bad, sometimes it is good. Brad Moran was a star for the Hitmen (had his jersey retired) drafted by Sabres, never signed. Signed with the Blue Jackets and disappeared. If you could not make the Jackets roster in the first couple of years, what roster could you make? So maybe Sabres management had some sober second thoughts. No one drafts a star every time. Even Punch Imlach picked Morris Titanic, and he hit the iceberg pretty quickly! Happy New Year. I am looking forward to the Sabres' visit to Calgary in January.

[Chad]

1) First off, how is the Vanek offer sheet still an issue? It's been established that Bartlett (Vanek's agent) refused to talk to Buffalo before he saw the type of offer sheets he could get for Vanek. Even if the Sabres wanted to negotiate in-season, why would Bartlett ever do that? Ever? It's basic economics that when there is competition for services in the labor market, the price goes up up up. Do you think Bartlett was going to willingly cost both his client and himself, on commission, a large sum of money by signing a deal in the middle of a 40+ goal campaign. Get serious. It was perfectly played by the agent and the player. As Heather said, the only feasible argument that "Buffalo screwed up the Vanek situation" is to say they should have re-signed him after they lost to Carolina in the playoffs. Yet, I didn't hear too many people calling for that after he was a healthy scratch in those playoffs. Now, you can say you're one of those people. I won't believe you, but you can say it.

2) Michael, what is your beef with Roy? Did he steal your girlfriend or something? Your Roy-bashing has gone beyond laughable and is rapidly approaching irrational. You were conspicuously silent during his 9-game points streak and here you are after one game with no points. Roy is back on track with 22 pts in his last 19 games, and is probably going to end up as a point/game player again this year despite his slow start.

And this whole "Roy isn't 1st-line caliber" is a joke. Since the start of last season, when Roy signed his contract, here are the points standings for centers:

Malkin: 154
Thornton: 135
Datsyuk: 134
Zetterberg: 122
Getzlaf: 121
Crosby: 119
Lecavelier: 119
Savard: 118
Spezza: 117
M. Richards: 113
ROY: 111
Ribeiro: 111
E. Staal: 107
N. Backstrom: 106
H. Sedin: 106
P. Stastny: 102
J. Carter: 93
S. Gomez: 93
B. Richards: 91
Marleau: 88
Briere: 81
Drury: 81

He's 11th! There are 30 teams, therefore, theoretically, there are 30 1st-line centers...and Roy is close to and will probably finish in the top 1/3 of that group. Those are the facts. You have NO ARGUMENT that he's not a top-line player. You'd rather have Malkin and Crosby? Wow, tell me more! Just because Roy isn't those two players, doesn't mean he isn't one of the better players in the league. Here are some of the other players you'd rather have:

Bergeron: Yeah, those 4 G's and 14 A's for 18 pts really has me salivating. Good on the PK, but Roy also plays the PK. By the way, I give you the next Tim Connolly. This kid's head is so messed up after that hit last year and the reaggravation the other night, he's never going to be right.

Kessel: Much like his team, off to a ridiculous start. Unfortunately, it's about time both come back to Earth. He was a healthy scratch in a couple games in the Montreal series last season and was the subject of many trade rumors this off-season; shows what his own team thought of him coming into this year. I have a Benjamin that says Roy still ends up with more points than him if both stay healthy and, to show you I'm a sporting guy, I'll even give you the 7-point head start that Kessel currently has.

Stamkos: #1 pick who has showed next to nothing so far. Will be a good player, but not even sniffing the top centers in the league yet.

3) By the way, I find it more than a bit disingenuous that you cite the 2009-10 salaries of Miller ($6.25m) and Pominville ($5.3m) to say that they're underperforming, but then come back and cite to us the 2008-09 salaries of Malkin ($3.8m) and Staal ($4.5m) to compare them to Roy when YOU KNOW both are making far more next year: Malkin earns $8.7 mil starting next season, and Staal earns $8.25 mil next season. Pretty convenient to change your method when you're talking of non-Sabres. When will you learn that you're not going to slip your misrepresentations past me? By the way, you'd rather pay 2x Roy's salary for Staal whose stats are worse than Roy's over the last two seasons? Shouldn't you be getting more than equivalent production for that price disparity?

4) From the list above, the ONLY person making less money than Roy next year (when all the contracts kick in) is Backstrom. No matter how you spin it, Michael, the Sabres signed a GREAT deal with Roy.

5) Just wondering if you saw where Briere and Drury were? Two guys you've referred to as "1st-line centers" that were better than Roy. Not quite.

In other news, Merry Christmas to all the posters.

[Vanek's Agent]

Michael,
Why would Thomas even consider a deal at any point before his initial contract expired? He was a restricted free agent, something a player only achieves once in his career. It was a huge payday for him, made even bigger by the Oilers offer. No one could have seen those dollar figures coming...but Thomas and I both anticipated a contract way above what any team would have offered while he was still under contract. We had absolutely no intention of talking contract until we received the anticipated formal offer sheets from other clubs. The Oilers knocked our socks off, and we were glad to sign and glad to have Buffalo Match

[michael]

Heather,

I'm not quite sure I agree with your assesment that Vanek's agent wounldn't talk to the Sabres during the year. However, if you are correct, how about prior to the year begining. I can't believe you are even somehow justifying that absolute embarassing job Reiger and company did that year. In less than 1 day that team was destroyed. By the way Roy is making top money. Yes, your right, not Sidney Crosby money, but definetly top money. Here are 5 forwards this year making close to Roys money. I'll take any of the follow over Dereck Roy any day. Evgen Malkin 3.8, Steve Stamkos 3.7, Patrice Bergeron 4.7, Phil Kessel 2.2, Eric Staal 4.5. I wouldn't describe Roy or Pomminville's salary as laughable. Bottom line neither is producing. We are almost half way through the year and right now Roy is on track for 22 goals and Pommer is on track for 18. Hardley the kind of production we need from our top line centerman, and the free agent we signed to big deal last year. These two are 2nd and 3rd line guys at best. We need people tha can support Vanek.

[Buffalo Excuses]

If you are frustrated by Versus, turn off the game. Buffalo draws a VERY GOOD RATING most nights. If it precipitously drops vs Penguins and Bruins, the TV executives will take notice. Things will change. It is only 4 games.

You have the collective power to change. Use it. Do it or quit whining about it.

[Mark]

In a game against the Thrashers last week, Crosby jumped into a fight and while blindsiding the guy hit him with a low blow from behind. He was neither ejected for a third man in nor disciplined for the low blow. I'm sorry people, it's not whining. Crosby is protected..

[Heather B.]

Michael, Vanek's agent has made it more than clear that he had no intentions of letting the Sabres anywhere near Vanek during the season. Their plan from the beginning was to see what kind of RA offers were tendered. Neither of them has ever said otherwise. Can't blame them for that considering how it shook out but I don't think you can blame the Sabres either. Only other time to sign him would've been after the rookie year that ended with him being benched during the playoffs.

I won't argue with the rest of your assessments but Roy and Pominville are good examples of locking up talent before it's priced out of town. Roy's salary is already laughable compared to players in similar roles/production and Pominville's will be too if it's not already. His contract looks very good next to most that were signed in the same off-season. Roy might not be a number one center but he's not getting paid like one either.

Sabres definitely should've won last night. No reason for it to even get to overtime.

[michael]

DCS,

I think you forgot how the Vaneck thing played out a few years ago. Vanek could have been signed earlier in the year for a lot cheaper. Instead the Sabres, lead by Rieger were still implementing their "we don't talk contracts during the season policy." After we lost Briere and Drury in less than 24 hours we paniced and signed Vanek to the largest sports contracts in Buffalo sports history. I would definatly not complement Reiger on that debocle. Also, lets look at some of his recent draft picks, Roy probably the best but definatly not a top line centerman, Pomminville way over paid winger, Afinagenoff enough said, Over rated, over paided Ryan Miller, by the way he let 2 of his infamous wrist shot from the blue line goals last night and Grebe, Manacari and company are too young to evaluate. The front office is just about as much over rated as the players.

[dcs]

Wow, some ill-tempered anti-Sabres posts there. Anyways...they do prove a point. The Sabres should have won. They squandered chances. We Sabres fans don't necessarily whine more than other teams' fans. But the Sabres do find ways to lose in more dramatic fashion than other teams, which leads to louder whining.

Any blasts against Ruff or Regier seem misplaced, yet brings up a time to reflect on them. Regier doesn't look so bad now having matched the offer on Vanek and he's paying off nicely, and some of his recent draft work. Drury and Briere are slipping from memory. Briere continues to get hurt and the Flyers are feeling some buyers remorse. Drury is doing alright, but not great in NY. (Sure would be nice to have Drury's leadership though) And Ruff will continue being a good coach.

However, the Sabres have entered an era with Ruff where he's untouchable. Think JoPa, Boeheim, or Krzyzewski. He seems to have stepped into a rarefied echelon of coaches who define their organization, who will leave on their own accord.

Is this good for the team?

[buffalo fan]

OMG, you buffalo fans are a disgracful bunch of whiners. Crosby's goal was one of the best I've ever seen.
How pathetic you people have become. Maybe convert more on the power plays and Crosby doesn't get a chance to make that great play.

[Rick]

Sabre fans find more excuses for losing then any other fanbase in North America. The Sabres once again serve up mediocrity and the fans are OK with it. You get what you deserve Buffalo, Ruff and Regier are a perfect fit for you, enjoy.

[geno]

wahhhhhhh, boo who, go cry about the officiating again. maybe if you could score some goals than it wouldn't have been an issue.

[Chris]

I'm not sure there was a call on the ice. I didnt see the on ice official point or wave off the goal when it happened. Just for the record, the Sabres did score a PP goal - MacArthur's. They are playing better than they were in the previous 10 game stretch. They are hanging with good hockey clubs and if they can keep up that intensity when they play poorer teams (where they have a bad record), they can firmly establish themselves in the playoff race.

[cak]

I agree the Sabres should have won last night (along with many other nights) and should not have been in the position to lose in OT. They can't seem to play a full 60 minute game. Some nights it seems they only play for 20. When they stop skating & start chasing, they are in trouble. The sloppy passes & turnovers are their downfall.

It is frustrating to watch them have really good nights, then the next not. They will struggle just to make the playoffs if things don't turn around.

All I can say is "Let's Go Buffalo!"

[jan]

Dave, I agree. The Versus network just loves Crosby and co. and Crosby is the golden boy as far as the NHL is concerned-- he can do no wrong.

[Don H]

Regarding Crosby's winning goal, the goal call was made by the ref on the ice. It would have taken indisputable evidence on the video replays for Toronto to overturn it. If anyone who watched the game on TV can say with certainty that Crosby's stick was above the goal top, they have much bettter eyesight than me.

[Todd]

Maybe that puck to the head of Jochen will wake him from his excessively lazy play. What a huge slacker,just like worthless Pominville. Isn't Pominville where useless,lazy,wimpy players go to die?

[Dave]

The NHL's love affair with Crosby has passed the point of flattery and moved into complete parody for the league. He's a very talented player, but I'm getting sick to death of calls like this going his way. Anyone else would never get that call, but when the new NHL's golden boy is in that situation, the answer for the league is quite clear. And the VS. announcers....ugh. Game in, game out, if the Penguins are involved, and sometimes even when they're not, you'd swear the folks at VS. are all deeply in love with Crosby. A simple man-crush is one thing, but VS. has transcended the limits of good taste. I'd be surprised if the staff there weren't sending Crosby a dozen roses after every victory.

The Sabres should have won last night. They never should have even been in position for Crosby to be given his gift. However, it's not Christmas yet and the NHL shouldn't be handing out gifts to anyone.

[Don H]

Good teams find a way to win. Bad or mediocre teams, like the Sabres, find ways to lose. The Sabres only had one penalty, but that was a foolish retaliation by the Sabres. Result: power play for Pitt and a tying goal in the waning minutes of the game. Penalties also influenced the final results in some previous games. There are good and bad penalties and good and bad times to take them. Buffalo fails on both counts. The Sabres also had 5 power plays and came up empty on all. Don't blame this result on the refs. It's also quite a stretch to blame it on the Toronto war room's connection with Versus.

[Adam]

Um, I guess you did crack on the officiating.

[PGR88]

the sabres are starting to frustrate somewhat like the Bills are. You can see signs of skill, but a lot of dumb mistakes mean they can't hold leads, get passive, and get beat-up in their own zone. In the end, a mediocre team.